Brexit discussion

[Mr K]

At least Mr Osborne is happy (which is nice )
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/c...-a3714136.html

The breakthrough in Brussels earlier today should be welcomed by all those who want a softer Brexit. The hard Brexiteers clamouring for the UK to walk away and crash out of the EU without a deal have been thwarted.

Instead, Britain has agreed to go on paying money to the EU (the €40 billion-odd that this paper predicted in July); we’ve accepted a future role for the European Court of Justice and we’ve postponed indefinitely the moment when Britain breaks from the European regulatory model.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Very undemocratic of them. Parliament = democracy and we should respect it.

The people vote = Parliament should respect it = Democracy.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

At least Mr Osborne is happy (which is nice )
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/c...-a3714136.html

Is he actually now saying something positive about the person who sacked him? That Christmas spirit must be spreading! Maybe Mick and I will even catch some of it!

---------- Post added at 14:04 ---------- Previous post was at 14:03 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

The people vote = Parliament should respect it = Democracy.

Which they did = democracy.

Originally Posted by Mr K

At least Mr Osborne is happy (which is nice )
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/c...-a3714136.html

I wonder if he still has serial killer ambitions, which involves a freezer, large bag and a chopping knife and board, oh and TM?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

]Which they did = democracy.

So Brexit has happened! Hurrah!

So far the democratic vote has not been fulfilled. I reserve judgement until such time.

[denphone]

Trade talks will not start until February at earliest, EU tells UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...st-eu-tells-uk

[jonbxx]

At last things are a bit clearer...

So Brexit is still going ahead but at least we now know what 'no deal' will aim for;

'In the absence of agreed solutions the UK will ensure that continued regulatory alignment with those rules of the internal market and the customs union which, now or in the future, support North South cooperation and the protection of the Good Friday Agreement'

So no deal will be remaining in the SM and CU as far as I can see

[Taf]

EU and UK citizens have free movement of rights until the day the UK withdraws from the EU - 29 March 2019. This, in effect, is the cut-off date for EU citizens moving to the UK.

Anyone who arrives before Brexit day will have the right to stay.

Those who are yet to be granted permanent residency in the UK will have their rights protected, so they can still acquire it after withdrawal.


The latest deal also includes reunification rights for relatives who do not live in the UK, to join them in the future.

These rights extend to future spouses or partners of EU citizens.

Those EU citizens living in the UK will have their rights enshrined in UK law and enforced by British courts, though the European Court of Justice will have jurisdiction over EU citizens' rights for eight years after the withdrawal day.

EU citizens in the UK will have equal access to social security, health care, education and employment.

But they - and UK citizens in the EU - would lose their rights to residency if they are out of the country for five or more years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42279408

So the severe watering-down of brexit has truly begun. Many voted thinking EU nationals would only be able to work and live here with a visa or work permit for worthwhile jobs we require filling. Not scrap and clothing collectors, widow and car washers living off State Benefits. This has made a mockery of those hopes.

Originally Posted by Taf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42279408

So the severe watering-down of brexit has truly begun. Many voted thinking EU nationals would only be able to work and live here with a visa or work permit for worthwhile jobs we require filling. Not scrap and clothing collectors, widow and car washers living off State Benefits. This has made a mockery of those hopes.

This was always going to be the case. It's simply too difficult to kick out all the EU nationals already here, they live here, moved here under the assumption they would be able to stay here and built their lives around that. You weren't going to get the police rock up in South Kensington to kick out all the French people.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Taf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42279408

So the severe watering-down of brexit has truly begun. Many voted thinking EU nationals would only be able to work and live here with a visa or work permit for worthwhile jobs we require filling. Not scrap and clothing collectors, widow and car washers living off State Benefits. This has made a mockery of those hopes.

You can deport EU nationals who come here and can't support themselves.

Originally Posted by denphone

Trade talks will not start until February at earliest, EU tells UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...st-eu-tells-uk

No rush, Juncker has to sober up and the others will be rubbing their hands with glee at Martin Schulz insistence of a United States of Europe by 2025 and how they can clobber the idea in to reality.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by denphone

Trade talks will not start until February at earliest, EU tells UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...st-eu-tells-uk

The last three words are the most poignant. Gone are the day-dreaming Brextremists' wild talk of the Italians needing us to buy their Prosecco and the Germans their cars.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Mick

No rush, Juncker has to sober up and the others will be rubbing their hands with glee at Martin Schulz insistence of a United States of Europe by 2025 and how they can clobber the idea in to reality.

Martin Schulz has as much influence on German politics and the EU as Jeremy Corbyn. I think his influence has been somewhat overstated...

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Martin Schulz has as much influence on German politics and the EU as Jeremy Corbyn. I think his influence has been somewhat overstated...

1) He is deciding whether to keep Merkel in power. That gives him power.
2) He is far from the only one with these ideas.
2012

But especially in recent weeks, Merkel and her top ministers have been spelling out a far grander, German alternative to convince markets the euro is here to stay. What they envision would mark a radical step forward in European integration through a “political union” in which countries in the region would act more like American states, sharing an elected president and even a pan-European army.

June 2016

The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”.
Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The last three words are the most poignant. Gone are the day-dreaming Brextremists' wild talk of the Italians needing us to buy their Prosecco and the Germans their cars.

It's all theatrics, Andrew. We will end up exiting the common market, customs union and the EU with its enforcing ECJ. The reference to regulatory alignment is a matter that needs to be thrashed out in detail, but remainers shouldn't get too excited about that. These will simply be common sense arrangements to ensure the border arrangements do not cause a problem. As we already comply, that should not present the UK with a problem.

What this agreement has shown is that despite all the ludicrous comments that the Government was in chaos and would never be able to reach a deal with the EU which would implement the electoral result required, Theresa May has been steadily moving towards her goal.

The 'chaos' results from tne simple fact that the government is in a minority in the House of Commons. The fact that despite this, TM has achieved the nod to go forward to the second phase of negotiations, is testament to her professional approach and determination.

Jeremy Corbyn would have caved in by now.