The 2017 General Election

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Can't believe she's brought Gove back. It's like hiring an assassin to kill yourself.

Absolutely crazy IMO as he won't hesitate putting a dagger in her back.

Really Michael that is a fair whopper by you as you were not interested in the national interest when you wanted to run as leader.

Michael Gove‏
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Conservatives always put national interest first - vital the PM is given strong support for key Queen's Speech and Brexit talks

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Point #1 is just completely wrong. Scaling up financial goings on from the household to a country doesn't negate economic realities. It might delay their biting you in the backside by a decade or so but bit you will be eventually.
Point #2......at least when the private sector fecks up heads tend to roll (not always, admittedly)
Point 3......I'm not sure that many think that "House price inflation is good for the economy and creates growth"
Point 4....." The majority of economists recognise that severe spending cuts are harmful to the economy" ........mainly if, like Brown, you consider the public sector to be 'the economy'
Point 5......I'm not sure that many think that "Everyone maximising their self-interest promotes wellbeing" and the argument that "A look at the concept of information asymmetry demonstrates how wrong-headed the idea of humans as perfectly rational economic agents is" is a good idea for a left wing publication since the same argument can be used against communism and socialism
I could go on to points 6 through 10 but I'm losing the will to refute the arguments of someone who is clearly a mental defective.

Err .. the point "House price inflation is good for the economy and creates growth" was the proposition that he then argues against!

So you give up and trot out the "mentally defective" summary .. inspired debating technique! Maybe Mother T use this strategy in the upcoming EU talks

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Or to kill Boris or keep him distracted!

Or shock horror, just to wipe those smirks off yours and Mr K's faces, May keeps on track with a hard brexit which is what 17.4 Million people voted for, given Gove is Pro-brexit, as is Boris, David Davis, Liam Fox. Priti Patel etc.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

Or shock horror, just to wipe those smirks off yours and Mr K's faces, May keeps on track with a hard brexit which is what 17.4 Million people voted for, given Gove is Pro-brexit, as is Boris, David Davis, Liam Fox. Priti Patel etc.

But the DUP and the British public don't want it. Hard Brexit is dead Mick, even soft Brexit isn't guaranteed. Keep the faith Mick if it makes you happy

[1andrew1]

This seems a bit odd!

The DUP could insist on Nigel Farage having a role in Brexit negotiations
Nigel Farage could become a bargaining chip in talks between the DUP and the Conservatives. Theresa May wants the support of the Democratic Unionist Party to form a coalition. But the Northern Irish party reportedly wants Farage to be brought into Brexit negotiations. ‘They hold a few cards,’ a source told the Sunday Times. ‘They want Farage as a lord or a role in government or he and Arron will put something together that will cause trouble for May.’

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/11/the-du...#ixzz4jj00THtE

Originally Posted by Mr K

But the DUP and the British public don't want it. Hard Brexit is dead Mick, even soft Brexit isn't guaranteed. Keep the faith Mick if it makes you happy

Rubbish.

Nearly 14 Million people voted for Tories. 13 Million Labour a few days ago. Do the bloody maths, Labour was saying there were/are prepared for a hard brexit, i.e leaving the single market and customs union.

It's not dead, keep dreaming Brexit is happening, so we can leave that corrupted pile of garbage, that for some silly reason, you and a few others, still cherish and think we need when we certainly do not.

Originally Posted by Mr K

But the DUP and the British public don't want it. Hard Brexit is dead Mick, even soft Brexit isn't guaranteed. Keep the faith Mick if it makes you happy

On the contrary, the DUP are right up for hard Brexit. Their only red lines are no hard border with the republic, and the soft border is not to be secured at the expense of putting up a hard border between NI and GB.

Doesn't no border mean customs union?

By the way the dynamic that's changed is that May doesn't have the majority or statute to do whatever she wants. The Telegraph has reported Hammond made a demand that jobs and the economy should come first. Ruth Davidson has called for a softer Brexit too. There are enough MPs on both sides of this to cause problems given the size of the majority so the dynamic has changed now. Who knows what will actually happen ...

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I think everything will go pear shape. The knives are turning for TM. If l had the opportunity to vote on Brexit again. I would vote stay.

Yet again the electorate was conned by shabby politicians. We kept on being told that Millions of OUR money was going into the EU. And parts of that money could go to the NHS.

What's happened - NOTHING.

Its like the General Election. I would say that between now and the time that MPs go on another bleeding holiday. TM will be out. And there will be another General Election.

With DUP and The Tories, it will turn really nasty. And l can see every motion going before Parliament, it will be voted out by Labour.

I was told today by a head teacher, that State schools are in a total mess due to money. And parents are being asked to buy books for the kids to write in. And teachers are facing being laid off due to loss of funding.

This should not be happening in this day and age.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I think everything will go pear shape. The knives are turning for TM. If l had the opportunity to vote on Brexit again. I would vote stay.

Yet again the electorate was conned by shabby politicians. We kept on being told that Millions of OUR money was going into the EU. And parts of that money could go to the NHS.

What's happened - NOTHING.

Its like the General Election. I would say that between now and the time that MPs go on another bleeding holiday. TM will be out. And there will be another General Election.

With DUP and The Tories, it will turn really nasty. And l can see every motion going before Parliament, it will be voted out by Labour.

I was told today by a head teacher, that State schools are in a total mess due to money. And parents are being asked to buy books for the kids to write in. And teachers are facing being laid off due to loss of funding.

This should not be happening in this day and age.

Theresa needs to fall on her sword and let Ruth Davidson pick up the pieces. But Ruth is too shrewd to get extensively involved in the post-Brexit, ongoing austerity mess that the Conservative Party has inflicted on itself.

Originally Posted by Damien

Doesn't no border mean customs union?

By the way the dynamic that's changed is that May doesn't have the majority or statute to do whatever she wants. The Telegraph has reported Hammond made a demand that jobs and the economy should come first. Ruth Davidson has called for a softer Brexit too. There are enough MPs on both sides of this to cause problems given the size of the majority so the dynamic has changed now. Who knows what will actually happen ...

The customs union prevents independent trade deals being made. That's why the Tory position has been thar Brexit means leaving the CU. The Single Market is one of the four freedoms and the EU's negotiating position is that you can't pick and choose between them; it's all or nothing. Hence, the Tory position is that we will leave the single market.

This is why the concepts of "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" are misleading. There is in reality no such thing as soft Brexit. Remaining in the CU and the SM means retaining a lot of the things that people actively voted against in the referendum. "Soft" Brexit is not Brexit at all. It is merely continuing to remain a member of the key institutions of the EU whilst surrendering all influence over the way they work and develop.

This is the inescapable logic of Brexit and parliamentary maths doesn't change it. I believe the agitators within the Tory party know this, and the prospect of May's administration collapsing and being replaced with Jeremy Corbyn will be enough to frighten them into shutting up.

I believe it will be possible to reach a unilateral agreement with the Irish republic that allows a frictionless border to exist, even though there will be a customs frontier. I'm sure a technological solution can be found to monitor what's crossing the border.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Theresa needs to fall on her sword and let Ruth Davidson pick up the pieces. But Ruth is too shrewd to get extensively involved in the post-Brexit, ongoing austerity mess that the Conservative Party has inflicted on itself.

Plus she's not an MP, so might find PM questions a bit tricky !

[Osem]

Getting a bit tired of all those Labour calls for May to resign having got no mandate. What mandate did Corbyn get?

Then there's yet another example of Labour lies and/or hypocrisy from John McDonnell who, quite typically, said one thing before the election and is doing quite the opposite afterwards. Quelle surprise.

McDonnell said Corbyn would have to resign if Labour lost...

... Labour lost. The Tories won 56 more seats than Labour. In fact the Tories won more seats than all of the parties in that much talked about “Progressive Alliance” combined.

https://order-order.com/2017/06/11/270145/

Anyone would think amnesia was endemic in the red ranks...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Plus she's not an MP, so might find PM questions a bit tricky !

lol, agreed, I appreciate that there's a few processes first. Maybe Ruth can move to Maidenhead or Uxbridge if one of the incumbent MPs steps down! Even Mick approves of Ruth despite her sensible stance on Brexit. But Ruth seems too clever too clever to get involved in the Westminster mess at the moment.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I think everything will go pear shape. The knives are turning for TM. If l had the opportunity to vote on Brexit again. I would vote stay.

Yet again the electorate was conned by shabby politicians. We kept on being told that Millions of OUR money was going into the EU. And parts of that money could go to the NHS.

What's happened - NOTHING.

Its like the General Election. I would say that between now and the time that MPs go on another bleeding holiday. TM will be out. And there will be another General Election.

With DUP and The Tories, it will turn really nasty. And l can see every motion going before Parliament, it will be voted out by Labour.

I was told today by a head teacher, that State schools are in a total mess due to money. And parents are being asked to buy books for the kids to write in. And teachers are facing being laid off due to loss of funding.

This should not be happening in this day and age.

Brexit hasn't happened yet Arthur so no money destined for the EU has yet been saved. Do you understand that or do you need further help to comprehend it?