Post-Brexit Thread

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Osem

I'd be interested to know how you'd go about planning for something as complicated as this in which there are so many unknowns and variables. The straight answer would be that it's an ongoing process until negotiations are concluded and the plans will be changing accordingly.

Not something you'd want to make a decision on without knowing all the facts and consequences then?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Revisit your posts. One says they have a plan, one says they're working on it. Playing for Man City and Man United, so to speak.

Clearly there is a plan. However, not only does the Government need to add some detail to it, that detail needs to be gone over and over in order to avoid unintended consequences and omissions. At the same time, our negotiating tactics need to be worked on methodically as well.

The Government was absolutely right to allow time for rigour in this process, and a March 2017 date seems entirely appropriate to me. The EU is going to try to make things as difficult as possible for us, even if they inadvertently or without care shoot themselves in the foot in the meantime. We have to be thoroughly prepared if the Government is to get the best deal for the UK.

---------- Post added at 12:05 ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

The referendum seems to have sorted things out. We've all got a clear direction and know exactly where we're going now....
Clip of Theresa M on Marr this morning telling us how terrible Brexit would be (pre-refererendum). Hypocrisy rules, power is everything...

There's no hypocrisy there, old chap. Theresa May was not the Prime Minister then and had to follow the Cabinet line. However, she was a remainer and stated the views she believed in at the time.

However, she now has to deliver the will of the people and so she is turning her attention to the opportunities available outside the EU. She wouldn't last five minutes as our PM if she said she was delivering the will of the electorate by concentrating only on the disadvantages of such a move. That would surely show stubborness and inflexibility. If you want that, vote for Corbyn.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Osem

I'd be interested to know how you'd go about planning for something as complicated as this in which there are so many unknowns and variables. The straight answer would be that it's an ongoing process until negotiations are concluded and the plans will be changing accordingly. The other side will be doing exactly the same.

The truth is that whatever HMG does at this stage there'll be those who'll use it as a stick to beat them with.

Fair response, and I suspect you too feel sorry for the millions of British employers up and down the country having to do this plus the civil service who have been told to plan for Brexit without knowing what it is. You couldn't make the nonsense shown below up, and it's not helped by many of the best civil servants taking voluntary redundancy over the last five years.

Civil service complains at demands for post-Brexit budget plans
The Department for Exiting the EU (Dexeu), led by David Davis, has sent out a commission to permanent secretaries asking them to explain what the impact of Brexit will be on their staff numbers, budgets and resourcing.
Its request brought a bemused response. “At the moment, departments are writing up their core assessments on how Brexit might affect their operations after we leave,” said one Whitehall figure. “But it is all proving chaotic because none of us actually knows what kind of deal the government is aiming at.”
Google the headline or pay link at https://www.ft.com/content/15df5764-...2-f57d90f6741a

Meanwhile, the possibility of the UK remaining in the EU Customs Union looks stronger today following comments from Liam Fox:

UK may try to stay in EU customs union, says Liam Fox
"The UK may seek a compromise deal to remain in the EU customs union, according to Liam Fox, the Eurosceptic minister for international trade.
In July, Mr Fox called for the UK to leave the customs union, which sets out common rules for checks on goods entering the EU, but he said on Sunday that there may not be a “binary” decision, suggesting that the government might seek some unspecified compromise deal."
Google headline or pay link at https://www.ft.com/content/f2f8b090-...3-7e34c07b46ef

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Fair response, and I suspect you too feel sorry for the millions of British employers up and down the country having to do this plus the civil service who have been told to plan for Brexit without knowing what it is. You couldn't make the nonsense shown below up, and it's not helped by many of the best civil servants taking voluntary redundancy over the last five years.

Civil service complains at demands for post-Brexit budget plans
The Department for Exiting the EU (Dexeu), led by David Davis, has sent out a commission to permanent secretaries asking them to explain what the impact of Brexit will be on their staff numbers, budgets and resourcing.
Its request brought a bemused response. “At the moment, departments are writing up their core assessments on how Brexit might affect their operations after we leave,” said one Whitehall figure. “But it is all proving chaotic because none of us actually knows what kind of deal the government is aiming at.”
Google the headline or pay link at https://www.ft.com/content/15df5764-...2-f57d90f6741a

Meanwhile, the possibility of the UK remaining in the EU Customs Union looks stronger today following comments from Liam Fox:

UK may try to stay in EU customs union, says Liam Fox
"The UK may seek a compromise deal to remain in the EU customs union, according to Liam Fox, the Eurosceptic minister for international trade.
In July, Mr Fox called for the UK to leave the customs union, which sets out common rules for checks on goods entering the EU, but he said on Sunday that there may not be a “binary” decision, suggesting that the government might seek some unspecified compromise deal."
Google headline or pay link at https://www.ft.com/content/f2f8b090-...3-7e34c07b46ef

But it is complicated, Andrew. You can't blame the Government for that. It was the British people who voted for Brexit, after all!

This is certainly not a straight forward process and the Government is right to be taking a bit of time to study the consequences of this before entering into negotiations.

Project fear never stopped it's continuing each and every day with constant doom and gloom and even the brexit supporting media are playing into it. Never see anything but doom and gloom in detail any positive news is quickly buried under a fresh avalanche of more doom and gloom. Going by the media here and in Europe you'd be forgiven for thinking there is no pressure on the EU to reach a balanced deal with the UK. There is certainly in Germany merkel is having to give assurances that whatever deal will not negatively impact German car manufacturers more then is absolutely necessary. Italy and France are keen that goods continue as they are with minimal disruption and other nations are also using brexit to push for greater more meaningful EU reform. Good luck finding it in the media because if it's not doom and gloom or putting the UK down it doesn't show up much hell you could also be forgiven for thinking that the UK faced a totally united EU determined to extract the harshest conditions in the upcoming negotiations which is not the case.

Still never mind the UK right now has so many people willing to trash our country and take pleasure in predicting the worst and how we should be grateful for any deal with the EU that it's all irrelevant anyway.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

However, she now has to deliver the will of the people and so she is turning her attention to the opportunities available outside the EU. She wouldn't last five minutes as our PM if she said she was delivering the will of the electorate by concentrating only on the disadvantages of such a move. That would surely show stubborness and inflexibility. If you want that, vote for Corbyn.

I have got to pick you up on this repeated point that Brexit is the "will of the people". It is the will of 37% of the electorate. That's all that was required to win the referendum.

Consequently, she must take into account the impact of Brexit on the nation as a whole and not just the wishes of the minority that voted to Leave.

It is an irony that a Trades Union requires 40% of a total electorate (not merely votes cast) to trigger a strike whereas a vote to radically change the financial, cultural and political makeup of the whole country could have been decided by Bob in Essex ..

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I have got to pick you up on this repeated point that Brexit is the "will of the people". It is the will of 37% of the electorate. That's all that was required to win the referendum.

Consequently, she must take into account the impact of Brexit on the nation as a whole and not just the wishes of the minority that voted to Leave.

It is an irony that a Trades Union requires 40% of a total electorate (not merely votes cast) to trigger a strike whereas a vote to radically change the financial, cultural and political makeup of the whole country could have been decided by Bob in Essex ..

i see your doing the include the can't be arsed to vote score to make up your figures ,that's not how it works but you already know that .

its 52% ish of those who bothered to vote .

[denphone]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

she's delivering democracy - a strange concept to remoaners -but you'll catch on eventually .

l have accepted Brexit but it does not mean l have to agree willy nilly about it as there are things l don't agree with as politicians and large parts of the media will only tell what some want to hear and won't tell you what you don't want to hear.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by denphone

l have accepted Brexit but it does not mean l have to agree willy nilly about it as there are things l don't agree with as politicians and large parts of the media will only tell what some want to hear and won't tell you what you don't want to hear.

the gov are working hard or soft[ if that's what you want] to thrash out the willy and the nilly but its being overcome by the nitty and the gritty at this time .

if you tell me what you don't want to hear i'll do my best to make sure you don't hear it .

[denphone]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

the gov are working hard or soft[ if that's what you want] to thrash out the willy and the nilly but its being overcome by the nitty and the gritty at this time .

l just want a well thought out Brexit plan which is going to suit this country in the long term and not one based on knee jerk reactions and without much thought.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by denphone

l have accepted Brexit but it does not mean l have to agree willy nilly about it as there are things l don't agree with as politicians and large parts of the media will only tell what some want to hear and won't tell you what you don't want to hear.

Originally Posted by denphone

l just want a well thought out Brexit plan which is going to suit this country in the long term and not one based on knee jerk reactions and without much thought.

Don't worry Den, the Goverment has issued the negotiation plan demanded by remainers:

"Politics is generally a mish-mash of hurly-burly. Remainers wrongly think the Government is dilly-dallying but there's a lorra-lorra wishy-washy mumbo-jumbo to be sorted out in the nitty-gritty. Our best eager-beavers will be doing a fair bit of wheeler-dealing to ensure the EU play boogie-woogie and making sure things don't go higgledy-piggledy. This will involve hob-nobbing with continental riff-raff to ensure there's no hanky-panky, especially with nilly's-willy, and everything will be hunky-dory".

Happy now?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Don't worry Den, the Goverment has issued the negotiation plan demanded by remainers:

"Politics is generally a mish-mash of hurly-burly. Remainers wrongly think the Government is dilly-dallying but there's a lorra-lorra wishy-washy mumbo-jumbo to be sorted out in the nitty-gritty. Our best eager-beavers will be doing a fair bit of wheeler-dealing to ensure the EU play boogie-woogie and making sure things don't go higgledy-piggledy. This will involve hob-nobbing with continental riff-raff to ensure there's no hanky-panky, especially with nilly's-willy, and everything will be hunky-dory".

Happy now?

Now Kursk there is one thing you do need to learn and that is to talk in proper English diction as l can't quite understand all this mumbo jumbo old boy here.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by denphone

Now Kursk there is one thing you do need to learn and that is to talk in proper English diction as l can't quite understand all this mumbo jumbo old boy here.

I think the Government statement is written in the language Remoaners will understand

For someone who won a vote, you're very defensive and aggressive (at the same time).

It must be frustrating when people use their democratic right to disagree with you, just like you did with previous governments' views and policies....

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Hugh

For someone who won a vote, you're very defensive and aggressive (at the same time).

It must be frustrating when people use their democratic right to disagree with you, just like you did with previous governments' views and policies....

Or you are misunderstanding the friendly banter between Den and I in this season of goodwill