Post-Brexit Thread

[techguyone]

Lets not lose sight of whom made up the 2 year 'deal' it wasn't the UK

Anyone would think the EU didn't want anyone to leave and placed unrealistic timescales as an obstacle.

[nomadking]

When are people finally going to get the fact that everything is a 2 way thing. As long as we are prepared to play hard ball on issues, then agreements should be easy to arrive at and beneficial to BOTH sides. Just make sure that Corbyn & co aren't in government for a very long time or we are right in it, as they would give away everything and more.

Paying money to the EU is a TAX, as the slogan goes "no taxation without representation". The money is to prop up the EU and nothing to do with trading. There may be administrative type costs for the trading aspects and there would be nothing wrong in paying for those.

[1andrew1]

Well worth reading this in full, just Google the headline to see what the writer Philip Stephens concludes. It nails some of the paranoia out there.

How Brexit may not mean Brexit
"The risk with referendums, as Margaret Thatcher used to say, is that they become a device for demagogues and dictators: the people have spoken so now they must be silent ever more. The point about liberal democracy is that citizens are offered a chance to change their minds...

The leavers, you might imagine, would be brimming with seasonal good cheer. For some, this is the culmination of a life’s political work. They should be dancing in the streets. Instead, gripped by a fear that verges on paranoia, they see dark plots and dastardly conspiracies in every doorway....

The possibility of such scrutiny has provoked uproar among more excitable Brexiters, with the judges condemned as “enemies of the people”. In the manner of authoritarians through the ages, they contend that the rule of law belongs to politicians rather than the courts...."
This is confusing at best for those who took at face value the leavers’ claim to be the champions of parliamentary “sovereignty” against the depredations of Brussels.
https://www.ft.com/content/7b9bd4fc-...a-2b93a6856354

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by pip08456

I'll trump your 63% of the electorate who did not vote to leave with 79.7% who did not vote to remain.

Try and argue your way out of that one! Please prove my figure wrong as it is based on the same calculation you made for yours.

This is the result that matters not ficticious figures pulled out of the air. (see attatched image)

The perfect post-truth response:

ficticious figures pulled out of the air

when I was quoting facts .. remember those

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by ianch99

The perfect post-truth response:



when I was quoting facts .. remember those

As the remain vote was 48.1% would you mind explaining where you get 63% from?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Instead, gripped by a fear that verges on paranoia, they see dark plots and dastardly conspiracies in every doorway....

That's because there actually are dark plots and dastardly conspiracies in every doorway

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by pip08456

As the remain vote was 48.1% would you mind explaining where you get 63% from?

If you look at the site you took your screen shot selection from:

http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

You will see:

Leave Vote share 51.9% 17,410,742 VOTES
Remain Vote share 48.1% 16,141,241 VOTES
Electorate 46,501,241

17,410,742 / 46,501,241 = 37.4 % of Electorate voted to Leave

so 62.6% of Electorate did not vote to Leave

I cannot see how these are "ficticious figures pulled out of the air " ..

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by ianch99

If you look at the site you took your screen shot selection from:

http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

You will see:

Leave Vote share 51.9% 17,410,742 VOTES
Remain Vote share 48.1% 16,141,241 VOTES
Electorate 46,501,241

17,410,742 / 46,501,241 = 37.4 % of Electorate voted to Leave

so 62.6% of Electorate did not vote to Leave

I cannot see how these are "ficticious figures pulled out of the air " ..

Use the same calculation to find out how many did not vote to remain.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I cannot see how these are "ficticious figures pulled out of the air " ..

Originally Posted by pip08456

Use the same calculation to find out how many did not vote to remain.

May I compliment you on your polite reply. I would have favoured the more concise "eff off einstein"

Acting like there are no people that would happily ignore the referendum if they could is just as ridiculous as the more extreme brexiters there clearly are many in positions to disrupt that don't agree or support the referendum. The EU has become so ingrained in some they honestly cannot fathom a UK out of the EU and would do anything they could to remain within the EU regardless of whether it's best for the UK or not. There are many remain supporters who do not accept that we are leaving and are still hoping for a way to remain despite the referendum.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Kursk

May I compliment you on your polite reply. I would have favoured the more concise "eff off einstein"

I do try to be polite at all times.

Anyway back to the debate.

Originally Posted by martyh

I posted the link to show where i got the quote that answered your question of why it was going through the Irish courts .

I alredy knew that.

They are seeking clarification of law "is A50 irrevocable once invoked " nothing whatsoever to do with the democratic decision the government is trying to implement ,incidentally if A50 is revocable then it means the government can press ahead with no need to go through Parliament.

There is no provision in A50 for it to be revoked.

Article 50(2) is quite clear.

A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

It matters hugely and has massive consequences ,especially if A50 is deemed to have already been invoked which is the other part of the case

.

It hasn't, only our intention to invoke it.( I can see where you're going to head with that one).

If your going down the route of including non voters in a decision then we may as well start including newly qualified voters by the time A50 is invoked or removing deceased voters from the result .The referendum result was simply a snapshot of public feeling at the time ,it's very possible that by March next year the result would be different .The fact remains though that we are leaving the EU based on a decision made by the electorate in june 2016 but not enacted on until March (or later) of 2017

Isn't that where the 63% came from?

Originally Posted by ianch99

If you look at the site you took your screen shot selection from:

http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

You will see:

Leave Vote share 51.9% 17,410,742 VOTES
Remain Vote share 48.1% 16,141,241 VOTES
Electorate 46,501,241

17,410,742 / 46,501,241 = 37.4 % of Electorate voted to Leave

so 62.6% of Electorate did not vote to Leave

I cannot see how these are "ficticious figures pulled out of the air " ..

[Osem]

Originally Posted by techguyone

Lets not lose sight of whom made up the 2 year 'deal' it wasn't the UK

Anyone would think the EU didn't want anyone to leave and placed unrealistic timescales as an obstacle.

Correct.

Now that wouldn't be like them at all would it.

Originally Posted by pip08456

I alredy knew that.

Others may not ,and if you already knew that why pose the question ?

---------- Post added at 17:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:57 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

There is no provision in A50 for it to be revoked.

Article 50(2) is quite clear.

There may not be and that may stand but according to A50 we have to notify the EU of our intention to leave ,in law the word intention cannot be interpreted as final or irreversible.The very wording of Article 50 makes provision for the process to be reversed This is worth a read

It hasn't, only our intention to invoke it.( I can see where you're going to head with that one).

The argument that it has already been invoked is in my mind a bit spurious .Some legal minds are saying that because the UK has made it perfectly clear to the world in general that we intend to leave the EU then formal notification in writing or whatever the process is unnecessary and we are already in the process of leaving

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Use the same calculation to find out how many did not vote to remain.

What no apology for being accused of pulling "ficticious figures pulled out of the air"?

Disappointed but not surprised

[papa smurf]

12,949,258 didn't vote either way - i blame Pokemon go .

so a rough calculation add 2 subtract bull x tin foil hat = 12,949,258 fictitious votes