Post-Brexit Thread

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Damien

Yes but we want a better deal than them. There isn't a generic trade deal, they differ.

The only things were are looking for are reciprocal arrangements of one sort or another. Not a one-sided deal. The only other thing we are looking for is the status of ex-pats. That is a consequence of already being in the EU. Not an issue for anybody currently outside it.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Damien

Yes but we want a better deal than them. There isn't a generic trade deal, they differ.

We need a better deal, I heard an expert say that most trade deals don't include service industries only goods

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

We need a better deal, I heard an expert say that most trade deals don't include service industries only goods

That's what those notes photographed yesterday suggested which included:
"Our criteria are clear — more open the better.
Manufacturing relatively straightforward.
Services harder — because French hoping for business."

---------- Post added at 22:57 ---------- Previous post was at 22:52 ----------

Brexit legal challenge: Theresa May 'faces 11-0 defeat in Supreme Court' over her Article 50 vote appeal

"Professor Zander, Professor Emeritus of Law at the London School of Economics, gave his stark prediction in an analysis of Ms May’s Article 50 case in the legal magazine Counsel."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7445851.html

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Damien

Yes but we want a better deal than them. There isn't a generic trade deal, they differ.

Agreed. Each country cuts its own deal with the EU or indeed other trading nations. This is where the remoaners get it wrong asking are we going to have a "Norway", "Switzerland" or "Iceland" deal as if they are the only ones available.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Agreed. Each country cuts its own deal with the EU or indeed other trading nations. This is where the remoaners get it wrong asking are we going to have a "Norway", "Switzerland" or "Iceland" deal as if they are the only ones available.

According to Wikipedia, Iceland's application to join the EU has been "frozen".

http://news.sky.com/story/boris-john...rexit-10678355

Sky News understands the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has privately told at least four EU ambassadors that he supports freedom of movement - despite the Government's hard stance on Brexit.

The high-ranking diplomats were speaking under the Chatham House rule, which allows their comments to be reported, but not directly attributed.

---------- Post added at 22:10 ---------- Previous post was at 22:01 ----------

Personal view is not the Government view but at what point do we consider the idea Boris isn't a genius behind an eccentric front but actually just quite eccentric.....

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

http://news.sky.com/story/boris-john...rexit-10678355



---------- Post added at 22:10 ---------- Previous post was at 22:01 ----------

Personal view is not the Government view but at what point do we consider the idea Boris isn't a genius behind an eccentric front but actually just quite eccentric.....

What you mean like we thought Brown knew what he was doing until it all went pear shaped amd we found out Labour had left the pantry bare?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

http://news.sky.com/story/boris-john...rexit-10678355



---------- Post added at 22:10 ---------- Previous post was at 22:01 ----------

Personal view is not the Government view but at what point do we consider the idea Boris isn't a genius behind an eccentric front but actually just quite eccentric.....

It didn't come as a surprise to me. I think he came down at the last minute in favour of Brexit as it would further his career, in contrast to people like Farage and Gove who are passionate Leavers.
Like a lot of people in the UK, he was probably not totally convinced of the arguments either way but he made a rationale choice. I don't think it makes him a genius or eccentric, just a politician's politician.

---------- Post added at 00:37 ---------- Previous post was at 00:36 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

What you mean like we thought Brown knew what he was doing until it all went pear shaped amd we found out Labour had left the pantry bare?

History now looks more kindly upon Mr Brown as the man who saved us from the perils of the Eurozone.

[Pierre]

This is all doing my head in. March can't come quick enough.

The deal on the table was stay in the EU or Leave the EU, nothing in between.

It was made quite clear that the a leave vote was a vote to leave the single market.

We leave the single market and then negotiate a new relationship, whatever that may be.

But the starting point was a complete break. If you didn't understand that then that's a failure of your own due diligence. If you voted as a protest vote or some other reason then again your problem.

All this posturing and petulance from the EU is just that, posturing and petulance.

Let's get on with it and get the formal discussions underway.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

This is all doing my head in. March can't come quick enough.

The deal on the table was stay in the EU or Leave the EU, nothing in between.

It was made quite clear that the a leave vote was a vote to leave the single market.

We leave the single market and then negotiate a new relationship, whatever that may be.

But the starting point was a complete break. If you didn't understand that then that's a failure of your own due diligence. If you voted as a protest vote or some other reason then again your problem.

All this posturing and petulance from the EU is just that, posturing and petulance.

Let's get on with it and get the formal discussions underway.

I agree with you that the way it works is we leave the EU and the negotiate a deal with it once we have agreed the leaving deal. The talks from March 2019 onwards will include when we leave the EU, rights of British citizens living in the EU and vice versa, the substantial Euro Brexit bill, EU officials’ pensions, borders and the impact the UK leaving has on international treaties.

When it comes to leaving the single market that point is ambiguous as the UK has a separate agreement to be in the EEA. It is possible this point will need to be tested in the Courts. Another aspect is that there were contradictory messages before and after Brexit as to if the intention was to stay/rejoin the Single Market.

The Government wants to ease into the new arrangement understandably. It would be a lot more damaging to sever all ties completely and then slowly repair parts of it. The turmoil for companies, people and institutions currently using agreements/laws in place would be immense, even something like the legal status of migrants would cause massive headaches if we were to simply leave and have nothing in place.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Super, thanks for the clarification

Anytime

[Osem]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It didn't come as a surprise to me. I think he came down at the last minute in favour of Brexit as it would further his career, in contrast to people like Farage and Gove who are passionate Leavers.
Like a lot of people in the UK, he was probably not totally convinced of the arguments either way but he made a rationale choice. I don't think it makes him a genius or eccentric, just a politician's politician.

---------- Post added at 00:37 ---------- Previous post was at 00:36 ----------

History now looks more kindly upon Mr Brown as the man who saved us from the perils of the Eurozone.

I can't speak for 'history' but I'll never remember him kindly. I remember him as the 'prudent' Chancellor who sold off much of the UK's gold reserves at a rock bottom price in favour of stuff like Euros, who used PFI to keep massive borrowing off the books and whose ineffective financial oversight allowed the UK's major banks to bring the country to its knees. There's a thread about it all around here somewhere so I'll leave it at that...

[Anypermitedroute]

Originally Posted by Osem

I can't speak for 'history' but I'll never remember him kindly. I remember him as the 'prudent' Chancellor who sold off much of the UK's gold reserves at a rock bottom price in favour of stuff like Euros.

Which given today's exchange rate a good deal

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Anypermitedroute

Which given today's exchange rate a good deal

Really and how long is that going to last do you think compared to the value of Gold? Yeah I'd really rather have a vault full of Euros than a vault full of gold bullion...