7 dead and 50 injured as Croydon tram overturns

Perhaps we need speed cameras on rail/tram tracks.

[Osem]

It's an incredibly tight turn and you have to wonder how anyone in their right mind would do such a thing unless there was some sort of malfunction or a the driver had a medical problem, fell asleep or something.

[Anypermitedroute]

Originally Posted by Osem

It's an incredibly tight turn and you have to wonder how anyone in their right mind would do such a thing unless there was some sort of malfunction or a the driver had a medical problem, fell asleep or something.

And it is noticeable especially with speed you do have a feeling of being pulled from your seat

[denphone]

Obviously speed is very much dependent on the how deep the track bed and what the contours are but from what l know the rules and speed limits set down are pretty strict in regards to what train drivers have to adhere to in regards to the speed they can go on our railway and tram network but this tram driver unless there was a big malfunction quite clearly had a total disregard for the safety of the tram and its passengers.

[Mr K]

Surely it must be possible to make it impossible for trains to exceed the track speed limits ? This is the 21st century.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Surely it must be possible to make it impossible for trains to exceed the track speed limits ? This is the 21st century.

This is one of the devices that are put into some of our trains Mr K.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automa...ain_protection

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by denphone

This is one of the devices that are put into some of our trains Mr K.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automa...ain_protection

Don't think they've got it on my archaic line. The diesel trains are circa 1970, a stretch of single track line is still kept safe by drivers manually exchanging a token (which involves us watching them have a 10 minute cup of tea and a chat...)

Originally Posted by denphone

This is one of the devices that are put into some of our trains Mr K.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automa...ain_protection

Trains, Den, not trams. ATP is only in limited deployment on heavy rail lines in the UK. When it was considered the cost to do the whole network was prohibitive. What we do have is a simpler system called TPWS (train protection and warning system). This automatically brakes a train to a stop if it passes a red light and in its more advanced form can also stop a train before it reaches the red light if it is detected to be travelling too fast for the driver to do it manually. In certain advanced deployments it can also force an over speeding train to brake.

Neither of these systems is in use on the Croydon tram system, nor on any tram in the UK so far as I can see. The tram relies on a dead man's handle, so if the driver is incapacitated the tram will automatically stop.

For the most part, tram networks do not have the same block signalling system as the rail network. Trams are allowed to run close to each other because they can start and stop as quickly as a bus so block signalling wouldn't work, and therefore neither would TPWS, which is mostly about preventing collisions caused by trains running red lights.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Don't think they've got it on my archaic line. The diesel trains are circa 1970, a stretch of single track line is still kept safe by drivers manually exchanging a token (which involves us watching them have a 10 minute cup of tea and a chat...)

Actually they still use a token system in a few places as if my poor memory serves me well as there are a couple of places in Cornwall where it is done Mr K and then there are also the heritage steam railway lines around the UK where it is seen the most.

---------- Post added at 05:27 ---------- Previous post was at 05:14 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Trains, Den, not trams. ATP is only in limited deployment on heavy rail lines in the UK. When it was considered the cost to do the whole network was prohibitive. What we do have is a simpler system called TPWS (train protection and warning system). This automatically brakes a train to a stop if it passes a red light and in its more advanced form can also stop a train before it reaches the red light if it is detected to be travelling too fast for the driver to do it manually. In certain advanced deployments it can also force an over speeding train to brake.

Neither of these systems is in use on the Croydon tram system, nor on any tram in the UK so far as I can see. The tram relies on a dead man's handle, so if the driver is incapacitated the tram will automatically stop.

For the most part, tram networks do not have the same block signalling system as the rail network. Trams are allowed to run close to each other because they can start and stop as quickly as a bus so block signalling wouldn't work, and therefore neither would TPWS, which is mostly about preventing collisions caused by trains running red lights.

Thanks Chris for that as l knew there were safety systems used on the rail networks but l was not sure how much they were they were being used in parts of the network because as you say the cost is pretty prohibited and as for the tram systems yes that is a different kettle of fish altogether.

Not a problem

The approach taken on the railways is necessarily different. Trains and trams are often differentiated as "heavy rail" and "light rail" for good reason. Trains really are a lot heavier. They are also a lot faster. Their signalling and other safety systems are all built around the consequence of this, namely that they take some considerable distance to come to a halt, even with the emergency brake slammed on.

[Dude111]

Originally Posted by denphone

Sadly not getting much of a mention today on the news but sadly there have been fatalities.

Very sad...........7 dead??

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Dude111

Very sad...........7 dead??

Its always very sad Dude when there is a loss of life as sadly in life things can change in a instant for any body or any of us so my advice to to enjoy life to the full as one never knows what is around the corner.

[Osem]

A tram driver has been suspended after footage in The Sun appeared to show him struggling to stay awake, transport company FirstGroup has said.
A video emerged of the driver at the controls on the same line in which a crash killed seven people in Croydon on 9 November.
The Sun said it was recorded in April, about three miles from the south London derailment which also injured 51.
FirstGroup said the driver was removed from duty pending an investigation.
He is not the same driver involved in last week's fatal crash.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38040186

Makes you wonder why the footage wasn't sent to TFL by the person who took it.

Originally Posted by Osem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38040186

Makes you wonder why the footage wasn't sent to TFL by the person who took it.

Because TFL wouldn't pay loads of money for it