Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Scary

i hope he sue's the woman for all his lost earnings

Might be best to just draw a line under it, I can understand him feeling bitter, it has wrecked his career but at the end of the day if he hadn't been there, behaving grubby this whole sordid mess would never have happened. You can only hope this serves as a warning and a lesson to other young footballers and certain types of women for that matter about the consequences of their actions, I won't hold my breath though.

Also a not guilty verdict is not evidence the accusor was lying.

[Scary]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Might be best to just draw a line under it, I can understand him feeling bitter, it has wrecked his career but at the end of the day if he hadn't been there, behaving grubby this whole sordid mess would never have happened. You can only hope this serves as a warning and a lesson to other young footballers and certain types of women for that matter about the consequences of their actions, I won't hold my breath though.

i agree that he should have never put himself in that position, but the woman deserves to go to prison for this. it's to common now where someone famous sleeps with someone and the story is either sold to the papers or a rape claim is put in so they can get as much money as possible in my mind thats prostitution.

the real reason this angers me is there are people out there men and woman that have been victims of domestic violence or rape but it will never go to court because they see things like this and believe that they wont get any justice.

Anyone who makes a false claim of rape must go to prison

[techguyone]

I've always been a believer of people who make up stuff, that if it's found out to be so (I know this case isn't that) then they get the same sentence that the accused would have got if found guilty, I think it would stop that kind of nonsense pretty fast.

I've read cases where someone's been accused of rape and worst and then it came to light that the person was telling porkies, most I've seen so far is a 6 month sentence - suspended. Not really deterrent worthy.

[Osem]

A lot of folk have called him a lot of things (and worse), I wonder what they'll be thinking now. I suspect some will cite this as yet more evidence that the system doesn't take rape seriously and conviction rates are consequently far too low. Accusers could never possibly lie after all...

Originally Posted by Scary

i agree that he should have never put himself in that position, but the woman deserves to go to prison for this. it's to common now where someone famous sleeps with someone and the story is either sold to the papers or a rape claim is put in so they can get as much money as possible in my mind thats prostitution.

the real reason this angers me is there are people out there men and woman that have been victims of domestic violence or rape but it will never go to court because they see things like this and believe that they wont get any justice.

Anyone who makes a false claim of rape must go to prison

You're advocating a system whereby a rape trial becomes a zero-sum game where one of the participants is going to jail either way. Either the defendant is found guilty or the woman was lying. There would be no grey between the lines. It would be a binary certainty that one of those two things would have to be true even though our justice system doesn't work this way.

You're not allowing for the fact there can simply not be enough evidence.
You're not allowing for the fact two people can hold contrasting views of the same event.
You're not allowing for the fact that a jury system is, while very good, fallible.

You claim this angers you because there are victims of sexual assault out there but do you know how many of them would come forward if doing so could see them imprisoned if they're not believed, the jury decides the other way or the case simply isn't strong enough? I imagine very few. Rape convictions would fall to almost zilch.

It's horrible.

[mrmistoffelees]

It's simple really, people accused of crimes like this need to remain anonymous until a verdict is reached at trial.

Originally Posted by Osem

A lot of folk have called him a lot of things (and worse), I wonder what they'll be thinking now. I suspect some will cite this as yet more evidence that the system doesn't take rape seriously and conviction rates are consequently far too low. Accusers could never possibly lie after all...

Once case should not be used to draw conclusions about an entire system.

It could well be that rape convictions are too low, certainly many women feel that sexual assault in our society (not just rape) has not been treated well in this country and if that wasn't true then how on earth did Saville get away with it for so long?

Ched Evans is now innocent, people who say things about him now should watch themselves for libel. Hopefully he finds a club and gets to continue his career. This is a horrible situation all round.

---------- Post added at 16:08 ---------- Previous post was at 16:07 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

It's simple really, people accused of crimes like this need to remain anonymous until a verdict is reached at trial.

I think this should be the default with the one exception that the police can name them if it's deemed to be in the public interest but that decision has to be made by a judge whose guidance would be to use such a power sparingly.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Damien

Once case should not be used to draw conclusions about an entire system.

It could well be that rape convictions are too low, certainly many women feel that sexual assault in our society (not just rape) has not been treated well in this country and if that wasn't true then how on earth did Saville get away with it for so long?

Ched Evans is now innocent, people who say things about him now should watch themselves for libel.

---------- Post added at 16:08 ---------- Previous post was at 16:07 ----------



I think this should be the default with the one exception that the police can name them if it's deemed to be in the public interest but that decision has to be made by a judge whose guidance would be to use such a power sparingly.

Alas, wouldn't work, people would be screaming that anyone accused of such an offence who are on bail should be named as a public interest to protect potential victims.

People forget we live in an innocent until guilty legal society.

---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:11 ----------

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Shall l say what is wrong with this damn country, is that we find the person Guilty, till proven innocent.

<snip>

Just as I think you have hit rock bottom and you cannot come out with anything more stupid you come out with this utter nonsense.

You have to be joking or trolling, no one in their right mind could be so stupid as to think this.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

It's simple really, people accused of crimes like this need to remain anonymous until a verdict is reached at trial.

+1.

[Scary]

Originally Posted by Damien

You're advocating a system whereby a rape trial becomes a zero-sum game where one of the participants is going to jail either way. Either the defendant is found guilty or the woman was lying. There would be no grey between the lines. It would be a binary certainty that one of those two things would have to be true even though our justice system doesn't work this way.

You're not allowing for the fact there can simply not be enough evidence.
You're not allowing for the fact two people can hold contrasting views of the same event.
You're not allowing for the fact that a jury system is, while very good, fallible.

You claim this angers you because there are victims of sexual assault out there but do you know how many of them would come forward if doing so could see them imprisoned if they're not believed, the jury decides the other way or the case simply isn't strong enough? I imagine very few. Rape convictions would fall to almost zilch.

It's horrible.

i think that this woman should be tried as there was gaping holes in her story that's why it was quashed in the first place and why he has been found not guilty.

on the second part i never said that if someone is found not guilty the claimant should go to jail, i said that anyone who makes a false claim should serve time man or woman

[admars]

there was a similar local case, a woman claimed to be gang raped, the local paper was all over the story depicting how horrible the men were etc.

However a friend of mine was on the jury, mixed men and women, unanimous not guilty, as they saw the video footage which showed a completely different story to the one in the papers, where the woman, demanded more, from more men.

He said it was a horrible thing to watch, both the tape, and the people's reactions in court, it seemed that she woke up the following day and regretted what she had chosen to do the night before. however them men's names were dragged through the mud, their lives made a misery.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

Once case should not be used to draw conclusions about an entire system.

It could well be that rape convictions are too low, certainly many women feel that sexual assault in our society (not just rape) has not been treated well in this country and if that wasn't true then how on earth did Saville get away with it for so long?

Ched Evans is now innocent, people who say things about him now should watch themselves for libel. Hopefully he finds a club and gets to continue his career. This is a horrible situation all round.

---------- Post added at 16:08 ---------- Previous post was at 16:07 ----------



I think this should be the default with the one exception that the police can name them if it's deemed to be in the public interest but that decision has to be made by a judge whose guidance would be to use such a power sparingly.

Of course not but there have been many such cases I'm afraid. The problem in cases such as this is that it's very difficult to prove that rape has been committed but the answer to that cannot be lowering the standards of evidence required or worse still, turning justice on its head in favour of what amounts to a guilty until proven innocent presumption. Rape is an awful crime and those guilty of it rightly face severe punishment but in recognising that what we can't do is apply lesser standards of evidence to it. The often heard argument that women never lie about being raped is intended to create such a situation in effect. There's no real success in achieving higher conviction rates is that done by wrongly convicting more innocent men.

It's also about time that the punishments for false/malicious claims was increased. As it is, an innocent man, his wife and children can have their lives virtually destroyed by someone who walks away without anyone even knowing her name. That can't be right.

I still don't see how the jury returned the original verdict..and I guess I never will.

I just hope that he takes the whole matter as a worthwhile learning experience and that other young men(sportsmen or not) take this case to heart and learn that women should be respected no matter what the circumstances.

Originally Posted by Damien

Ched Evans is now innocent, people who say things about him now should watch themselves for libel. Hopefully he finds a club and gets to continue his career.

He joined Chesterfield in June, and has played 7 games this season (4 goals).