Post-Brexit Thread

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

The attitude you seem to want to take towards the EU, basically ''eff it and 'eff them' terrifies UK businesses for good reasons. Between that and the government deciding it wants to start controlling the economy more, that'll be the bastion of free trade stuff kicking in, we quickly become an even less attractive location for investment.

It's amusing how interventionist and protectionist the government is becoming when these were apparently the big concerns over Miliband.

Most of the time I suspect you could swap the party names on the manifestos and the same people would forcefully advocate how bad Labour/Tories are. What was then dangerous Marxist interventionism will become sensible conservatism sticking up for ordinary people against corporate interests whilst those advocating for it a year and a half ago will warn us of the cost to business and jobs.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Osem

I disagree - the two are not mutually exclusive. Just like the inflammatory nonsense being issued by French govt. ministers (for example), from time to time when they also need to appease one faction or another.

Unless you're incompetent, if you're about to start important negotiations you don't do so by winding the other side up. I give the Government the benefit of the doubt that they're not incompetent and they're internal messages.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Unless you're incompetent, if you're about to start important negotiations you don't do so by winding the other side up. I give the Government the benefit of the doubt that they're not incompetent and they're internal messages.

Really? So that must mean all the bluster from the EU about what the UK can have and what it can't is all incompetence then? Was Obama incompetent when he told the UK it'd go to the back of the queue? Tough negotiations often start with seemingly unreasonable positions being stated and then compromised on until the solution is found then it's back to 'normal' service...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Osem

Really? So that must mean all the bluster from the EU about what the UK can have and what it can't is all incompetence then? Was Obama incompetent when he told the UK it'd go to the back of the queue? Tough negotiations often start with seemingly unreasonable positions being stated and then compromised on until the solution is found then it's back to 'normal' service...

It's a tad different from stating that EU citizens are bargaining chips to accurately warning a country that trade negotiations with it are not a priority. And Brexiters have woken up to this fact. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7345581.html

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Damien

It's amusing how interventionist and protectionist the government is becoming when these were apparently the big concerns over Miliband.

Most of the time I suspect you could swap the party names on the manifestos and the same people would forcefully advocate how bad Labour/Tories are. What was then dangerous Marxist interventionism will become sensible conservatism sticking up for ordinary people against corporate interests whilst those advocating for it a year and a half ago will warn us of the cost to business and jobs.

https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband/stat...98959222718464



UKIP seem to be happy, though.

https://twitter.com/oflynnmep/status/783313098505584641

Patrick O'Flynn
‏@oflynnmep
The number of policies Mrs May is lifting out of the UKIP GE15 manifesto is astonishing. Almost like we are in power, but not in office!

Lastly and most ridiculously perhaps Arron Banks, he of bankrolling UKIP and Leave.EU fame, commenting earlier this year that he was in favour of remaining in the EEA and considered it a 'pragmatic step'.

Such views are now it seems bordering on traitorous.

https://twitter.com/rolandmcs/status/752164986730971136

---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 ----------

The comments on doctors are genius. 'Dear highly trained and qualified professionals, we'd like to kick you all out in the next decade, so please hang around in the interim while we hope to train your replacements.'

The link is to an article noting medical degrees ended up in clearing. Weirdly enough treating a profession like something on your shoe puts people off wanting to spend years training to do it.

Presume we'll also produces nurses out of thin area given the government has cut their bursaries.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

The link is to an article noting medical degrees ended up in clearing. Weirdly enough treating a profession like something on your shoe puts people off wanting to spend years training to do it.
.

You have to remember a lot of these people are experts.

[Mr K]

The low value pound has seemed to attract a lot of those pesky foreigners. York has been invaded by the Chinese; it's a disgrace.

Its going to be years before the consequences of Brexit will be fully felt. I suspect a lot of people will regret being hoodwinked.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

The low value pound has seemed to attract a lot of those pesky foreigners. York has been invaded by the Chinese; it's a disgrace.

Its going to be years before the consequences of Brexit will be fully felt. I suspect a lot of people will regret being hoodwinked.

Doubtless, they will say these things would have happened anyway.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Mr K

The low value pound has seemed to attract a lot of those pesky foreigners. York has been invaded by the Chinese; it's a disgrace.

Heh.

It's their going after our companies while they're relatively cheap that worries more. I doubt they'll stop at ARM.



---------- Post added at 13:50 ---------- Previous post was at 13:30 ----------

This from the news editor of that well-known liberal lefty pro-remain blog, Guido Fawkes.

https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/783637438774280192

Alex Wickham
@WikiGuido
It's like a Remain parody of what Tory Eurosceptics think. Horrible immigrant bashing. Naff patriotism shtick. Red UKIP. Honeymoon over.

12:58pm · 5 Oct 2016

The FT writer Alan Beattie had these thoughts:

https://twitter.com/alanbeattie/stat...43695568588800

Alan Beattie

‏@alanbeattie Alan Beattie Retweeted Alex Wickham

That awful feeling when you realise you've been had. Get used to it, liberal Leavers.

1:23 PM - 5 Oct 2016

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Heh.
The FT writer Alan Beattie had these thoughts:

Wow!! What an expert Alan Beattie is!

I have never been a Liberal.

I have never been a Leaver.

I have since the 70's been "I don't want this ****"

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Wow!! What an expert Alan Beattie is!

I have never been a Liberal.

I have never been a Leaver.

I have since the 70's been "I don't want this ****"

His comments aren't aimed at you - they're aimed at the liberal-minded leavers who didn't think the Government would intervene in business affairs in the ways which it is suggesting eg details of foreign employees, price controls on utility companies.

---------- Post added at 14:26 ---------- Previous post was at 14:16 ----------

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Heh.
It's their going after our companies while they're relatively cheap that worries more. I doubt they'll stop at ARM.

It's not a case of taking back control, it's a case of losing control. Alongside ARM, post-Brexit we've lost UK ownership of to Cath Kidston (Hong Kong), Odeon (China via AMC USA), and Poundland (South Africa).
Of course, the difficulty in all of these takeovers is whether they would have happened without Brexit anyway. Only long-terms stats will give us that informatioin.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Anypermitedroute

Real sad feel of right wing nationalism spreading across Europe, it's not just us

Rather that than left wing internationalism

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Rather that than left wing internationalism

It's becoming the same thing now.

The right used to support NATO, Free-markets and Capitalism. All of which saw living standards in the West rise considerably and brought about the fall of the Berlin wall. Now all abandoned for a nationalistic and protectionist mindset. The far-left is more than happy with a lot of it. They hate NATO, they hate free trade, they hate capitalism. When it comes to foreign policy and international trade where really do the likes of Le Pen really differ from Corbyn? The main thing would be immigration but they, and Trump for that matter, are surprisingly united on many things.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

It's becoming the same thing now.

The right used to support NATO, Free-markets and Capitalism. All of which saw living standards in the West rise considerably and brought about the fall of the Berlin wall. Now all abandoned for a nationalistic and protectionist mindset. The far-left is more than happy with a lot of it. They hate NATO, they hate free trade, they hate capitalism. When it comes to foreign policy and international trade where really do the likes of Le Pen really differ from Corbyn? The main thing would be immigration but they, and Trump for that matter, are surprisingly united on many things.

Interesting points. I think it's hard to have a single left-right axis for politics these days. It's a lot more complicated than that.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

His comments aren't aimed at you - they're aimed at the liberal-minded leavers who didn't think the Government would intervene in business affairs in the ways which it is suggesting eg details of foreign employees, price controls on utility companies.

Indeed. The classic example that comes to mind is Dan Hannan. He spent a while waxing lyrical about free markets and is in his own words an 'old whig' so pretty libertarian, and as a libertarian should be is perfectly relaxed about freedom of movement.

Going by this conference what he's getting instead is more market intervention than New Labour carried out, illiberal migration control and a bunch of extra red tape.