Tivo V6 : Virgin Media V6 - Powered by TiVo(new STB)

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Jong1

If you want you can, pretty much, live this way already. It means watching stuff within 7 days of airing (catch up) or buying the right to watch whenever from iTunes/Amazon etc. If you are happy with that, great. But, if you want to be able to watch things that are broadcast at times of your choosing for no payment, recording will continue to be the only legal option.

Well, it is better than that if you get Netflix, Amazon and Now TV.

However, recording of scheduled programmes will always be necessary for viewers like me until either a similar system is made available for On Demand TV as Netflix or Amazon, or alternatively, we can rely on the cloud to access these programmes for at least 18 months after the programme is aired.

[Jong1]

It is different for "original content", like Marco Polo, Daredevil, Man in the High Castle. But otherwise, you are still limited by "availability windows" on streaming services. Game of Thrones, for example, is not in Sky Box Sets at the moment.

I just cannot see a long-term cloud-based service happening, outside of catch-up. Catch-up might be extended to 30 days in some cases, or ""till just after the last episode airs" as the BBC do. But why would the producers agree to kill all DVD/Blu-ray/Itunes/Amazon sales for first 18 months, when premium prices can be charged? It's a very good money earner for them. I'd like to be proved wrong but.....

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Jong1

It is different for "original content", like Marco Polo, Daredevil, Man in the High Castle. But otherwise, you are still limited by "availability windows" on streaming services. Game of Thrones, for example, is not in Sky Box Sets at the moment.

I just cannot see a long-term cloud-based service happening, outside of catch-up. Catch-up might be extended to 30 days in some cases, or ""till just after the last episode airs" as the BBC do. But why would the producers agree to kill all DVD/Blu-ray/Itunes/Amazon sales for first 18 months, when premium prices can be charged? It's a very good money earner for them. I'd like to be proved wrong but.....

I understand where you are coming from, Jong, but your opinion is based on current behaviours and expectations.

Almost certainly, streaming will become more popular and will eventually take over from DVDs. That will change the financial incentives and ultimately, my view is that on demand and cloud based methods of retrieval will be the norm.

A few hurdles to be overcome in the meantime, of course, as ever.

[muppetman11]

A few points a lot of catch up is already 30 days and the likes of Netflix , Amazon already use the cloud.

[Jong1]

@old boy, @muppetman11,

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for streaming, all for "the cloud". I subscribe to Netflix and Amazon. I'm not stuck in some old model of TV watching!

Even buying series and episodes from iTunes, Amazon Video and the plethora of other similar services involves the cloud. I said that "original" series have just about unlimited windows on Sky, Netflix, Amazon etc. You are right that physical media is diminshing in importance, although Blu-ray (now UHD Blu-ray) will offer a quality edge, for enthusiasts, for the forseeable future (maybe 5+ years).

I was just responding to the idea that services will offer dependable, long-term (1 year +) catch-up for non-original material and I just don't see that happening. Even The BBC sells DVD and downloads of their series after catch-up and won't want to see that go. Game of Thrones, is probably Sky's number one attention-grabbing, exclusive TV show (other than sport), that can draw subscriptions, yet Sky have not managed to get, or were not prepared to pay for, an unlimited replay window - the show comes and goes from their Box Sets around the time the latest series is showing.

So, my view, FWIW and until I am humbled by some big announcement from Sky or Virgin, is that a cloud-based equivalent of a PVR, where you don't have to pay per show/series to watch and you don't feel under any time pressure to view and where you are not specifically subscribing to the content producer's streaming service, won't happen.

The "cloud"...

[tweetiepooh]

I too can't see cloud storage replacing local disk for PVR type devices. Unless content becomes time limited somehow so you can only store/watch for a defined period after recording. You would need to store every program broadcast and have it available quickly. Mind you you could use it to push in current advertising rather than that on the recording and skipping is harder over the cloud than locally.

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

You would need to store every program broadcast and have it available quickly.

That's entirely feasible with modern hard drive sizes, even more so if you de-duplicate repeat showings. It's a lot less than the disc capacity of 3 million TiVos. Consider how many copies of Eastenders are held on all those TiVos, when a single copy could be shared between them all.

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Unless content becomes time limited somehow so you can only store/watch for a defined period after recording.

That's not really a consideration. Content would be time limited on in-home PVRs if the content owners wanted it to be. On the other hand, you are far more likely to lose content due to a hardware failure of an in-home PVR than of a RAID in a nice air-conditioned data centre.

[muppetman11]

How would it impact those with peak time broadband contention issues ?

[Jong1]

Originally Posted by spiderplant

That's not really a consideration. Content would be time limited on in-home PVRs if the content owners wanted it to be. On the other hand, you are far more likely to lose content due to a hardware failure of an in-home PVR than of a RAID in a nice air-conditioned data centre.

The point is that, very grudgingly (they fought against the original VCRs and DVD recorders) content providers have accepted that home-based PVRs are so ingrained in society that they cannot mess with them. Not so, for other services that could interfere with their post-broadcast revenue.

I guess, let's see. I'd like to be wrong. But, there is probably a reason why the next-gen Sky Q still goes with a massive HDD and 12 tuners and why catch-up is still limited to what individual channels will agree, rather than what Sky or Virgin would like to offer.

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by Jong1

content providers have accepted that home-based PVRs are so ingrained in society that they cannot mess with them.

I have news for you - they already do. If you unsubscribe from Sky-owned channels, you'll lose access to your recordings from those channels.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Jong1

The point is that, very grudgingly (they fought against the original VCRs and DVD recorders) content providers have accepted that home-based PVRs are so ingrained in society that they cannot mess with them. Not so, for other services that could interfere with their post-broadcast revenue.

I guess, let's see. I'd like to be wrong. But, there is probably a reason why the next-gen Sky Q still goes with a massive HDD and 12 tuners and why catch-up is still limited to what individual channels will agree, rather than what Sky or Virgin would like to offer.

...And that just shows the absurdity of it all. We can choose to record this stuff, but they won't make it available on the cloud for 18 months!

[muppetman11]

Spider I see you skipped my question.

[Jong1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

...And that just shows the absurdity of it all. We can choose to record this stuff, but they won't make it available on the cloud for 18 months!

I agree. Let's hope I am wrong about the future!

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by muppetman11

Spider I see you skipped my question.

Sorry, I thought it was rhetorical.

I'd like to imagine that a network PVR would have dedicated bandwidth, so would be unaffected by local congestion.