Post-Brexit Thread

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Osem

Yet more bad economic news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37242804

Well they did warn us it'd all be downhill didn't they.

Doom and gloom!

[Osem]

Originally Posted by techguyone

No idea, after all if you're not in the club, you don't enjoy the benefits of membership, shouldn't be too difficult to grasp.

Then again, some people want the moon on a stick, for me, I'm happy to hand in my EU badge and lose my EU rights, of course I'll be gaining my sovereign rights instead, it's just a substitution.

Bit risky trusting our rights, laws, way of life, economic future etc. etc. to our own elected (and removable) government surely, especially when we could be benefiting from the far superior, forward thinking and not at all head in the sand, bloated and dogma fixated Brussels based model eh?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Hugh

All we need now is the VAT removed from home fuel bills, £350 million a week more on the NHS, immigration to go down, and everything will be rosy....

I would stop the Daily Express subscription while you can

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Ah, the old 'bridge building' technique...

After all the abuse I got for voting 'leave', nah......I'll stick to burning my bridges when it comes to (some) remain voters.



..............not to mention the abuse, from men no less, that my wife used to get on the street when she was out campaigning for leave (only happened when I wasn't there....strange)

[Ignitionnet]

Shame this wasn't considered earlier. Would've gone a long way in some people's eyes.

Perhaps if we end up looking at EEA membership.

[Osem]

@ Ramrod - Who needs bridges which connect us to economic mayhem and migration madness? We should be building bridges to connect us to that large portion of the rest of the world which doesn't believe in one size fits all politics/economic policy and prefers migration based on merit not membership.

Anyway, I've been waking up every morning wondering when the worst is going to happen. Where's that emergency budget?

Talk about scare stories...

[Ignitionnet]

A good analysis of the Eurozone's troubles: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ju...39ee8394de6afd

Germany especially need to get their act together and fulfil their side of the single currency bargain more.

These are troubles that impact us regardless of whether or not we're in political union, so for the sake of all concerned let's hope they, finally, get their act together and stop the insanity of repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

There were discussions about a two-speed EU with those who wanted more integration getting it while those who didn't had a looser relationship. Time to turn that into action both for the sake of those who wish to be at the core and who frankly need more convergence between their economies as without it the Euro just doesn't and couldn't work, and those who should have always been on the periphery.

[Ignitionnet]

Genuine question, zero sass: would it be acceptable to anyone who is happy with Brexit for the UK to allow migrants from the EU on condition they were employed?

Not complete free movement of people, but free movement of labour only. It's been mentioned that this wouldn't be against the treaties and would allow UK membership of the EEA. The big hitters in the EU wouldn't be opposed to this as they do want to keep working and trading with us but at the same time cannot simply give us whatever we want. We had a pretty good deal in the EU, to the point where it annoyed a bunch of other members, our getting preferential treatment leaving would end the thing. While that may or may not be a good thing it's not something people negotiating on behalf of the EU are going to pursue.

So, free movement for those working. We could certainly accompany this with restrictions on welfare and/or changes to the tax system that disincentivise employing EU nationals rather than those from the UK. Would that be enough to make membership of the EEA palatable?

Whats so important about EEA membership ?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by martyh

Whats so important about EEA membership ?

Nothing.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Genuine question, zero sass: would it be acceptable to anyone who is happy with Brexit for the UK to allow migrants from the EU on condition they were employed?

Not complete free movement of people, but free movement of labour only. It's been mentioned that this wouldn't be against the treaties and would allow UK membership of the EEA. The big hitters in the EU wouldn't be opposed to this as they do want to keep working and trading with us but at the same time cannot simply give us whatever we want. We had a pretty good deal in the EU, to the point where it annoyed a bunch of other members, our getting preferential treatment leaving would end the thing. While that may or may not be a good thing it's not something people negotiating on behalf of the EU are going to pursue.

So, free movement for those working. We could certainly accompany this with restrictions on welfare and/or changes to the tax system that disincentivise employing EU nationals rather than those from the UK. Would that be enough to make membership of the EEA palatable?

Free movement of labour would be fine with me. We are going to continue to need immigration to fill certain positions in our economy, and doing it via the EEA in this way is a very straightforward way of doing it.

If it's handled well, it can be made to satisfy most moderates on both sides of the argument.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

Free movement of labour would be fine with me. We are going to continue to need immigration to fill certain positions in our economy, and doing it via the EEA in this way is a very straightforward way of doing it.

If it's handled well, it can be made to satisfy most moderates on both sides of the argument.

Yup, just a pity it's been handled so badly for so long. Free movement and free citizenship needn't be the same thing IMHO.

I don't think many have a problem with contributing immigration as we all recognise the benefits in that it's the low skilled and illegal immigration that's the problem. I'd like to see a continuation of skilled immigration running parallel with a proper mid to high skill adult training in the UK so that we give unemployed people here the opportunity to obtain meaningful employment. Also for those unemployed who will not accept training be told that take any position available within six months or lose benefits.

For the vast majority of unemployed the chance to retrain for a skill we have a shortage of would be snapped up and for that very small minority who will not work by choice we need to remove choice from the options. I never thought I'd support something like that but over the last few months I've heard numerous younger people talking about how benefits are enough for them and they prefer no work and benefits over taking a job. I'm not saying it's widespread and I'm only talking about 15-20 but to be young fully fit and choosing not to work is a waste of their lives as well as something we cannot afford or allow as a society.

So far it does appear we won't retain membership of the single market but maybe banks will get a deal (presumably in exchange for something): http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...cess-on-brexit

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by martyh

Whats so important about EEA membership ?

Full free market and financial passporting access, access to ERASMUS, EU research programmes, free movement for UK citizens within the EU come to mind immediately.

What's the fundamental objection to it if the terms are right?

---------- Post added at 22:44 ---------- Previous post was at 22:42 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

Nothing.

Indeed. There are no benefits at all to the EEA just as there were none to the EU. The 48.1% who voted to remain are just morons.

---------- Post added at 22:45 ---------- Previous post was at 22:44 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Free movement of labour would be fine with me. We are going to continue to need immigration to fill certain positions in our economy, and doing it via the EEA in this way is a very straightforward way of doing it.

If it's handled well, it can be made to satisfy most moderates on both sides of the argument.

Absolutely. This would also be the least 'disruptive' way for us to leave the EU. Obviously we're going to, I'm not going to delude myself that we aren't, but if we can have a deal that's something like the best of both worlds, and acceptable to the majority of the UK it clearly makes sense to follow it.

---------- Post added at 22:54 ---------- Previous post was at 22:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

So far it does appear we won't retain membership of the single market but maybe banks will get a deal (presumably in exchange for something): http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...cess-on-brexit

No idea why the Pound would drop on such news, I thought we had a glorious future in or out of the single market. David Davis, Boris Johnson and Liam Fox say so. Works great for me as I'm due a bonus paid in US Dollars at the end of the month but not so great for the economy.

UK based financial services might be able to get some access to the EU via equivalence of regulation, however companies have to meet an assessment ruled upon by a body we've no control over, based on rules we'll have no control over that can be changed through means we have no control over.

The thing I'm stuck on is what exactly we have to offer the EU in return for special considerations for our financial services industry? We have nothing they can't reciprocate in spades. We can certainly decide all the EU migrants here can't be here anymore, then enjoy the benefits as mostly healthy, employed, working age people leave the UK to be replaced by retirees. Beyond that, no idea.