Obese people and smokers to be refused surgery (now in review)

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Lol lol lol there isn't even an agency that covers my job and no one will have made enough money out of it to retire let alone temp. I appreciate your concern about my terms and conditions but don't let it bother you, someone will turn up sooner or later.

From what you've said about your job, there are plenty of temps/consultants agency's ready and willing to provide a service. What's the name of your company?

Originally Posted by S_james

So you get plenty of physical excerise at work? Well one enjoy your evening relaxing time, you deserve it!

But what about those who don't get exercise at work but still suffer some physical illness like mine ,they may be stuck behind a desk and gain weight that way .
I agree that the NHS should limit it's resources to those that can and will help themselves but to simply set criteria based on something as vague as BMI is completely wrong imo

Originally Posted by martyh

But what about those who don't get exercise at work but still suffer some physical illness like mine ,they may be stuck behind a desk and gain weight that way .
I agree that the NHS should limit it's resources to those that can and will help themselves but to simply set criteria based on something as vague as BMI is completely wrong imo

Go swimming before work, park 1 mile away from work, ride to work, get off the bus a stop early. Solutions not problems!

Originally Posted by S_james

Go swimming before work, park 1 mile away from work, ride to work, get off the bus a stop early. Solutions not problems!

For some that may work but certainly not everyone ,it's ridiculous to suggest otherwise

[alferret]

Originally Posted by S_james

Yes you get obese by being calorie positive, eating more calories than you burn. No illness creates fat from nothing and makes you obese.

Lol you be talking outta you posterior pal.
Just another troll!
Genetics (may not be an illness but proven) thats 1
Other health issues that have a knock-on effect that in turn leads to weight gain.
Need I go on?
EVERYONE has the right to treatment EVERYONE!

But, (here it is, that caveat of a but) if someone refuses afer initial treatment to improve their health, cut down/stop smoking, added exercise, eat healthier then in certain curcumstances trearment could be restricted, but not stopped. You cant sentence someone to death because they are a smoker or overweight.

---------- Post added at 06:33 ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 ----------

Originally Posted by S_james

You lose a worker for whatever reason you replace them, why hasn't your company sought the services of a temp? What kind of company increases demand on a colleague at a time of loss? This does not make sense.

Not as clear cut as you may think (sorry to jump in on your conversation with another)
I work for a small company who a year ago employed 8 people on the shop floor & 4 in the office. We have lost 2 from the floor & 1 from the office.
Our workload has increased by about 10-15% over the last 12 months, this extra work has been spread out over the remaining staff. Whilst 1 of the jobs could have been covered by agency the other 2 couldnt. Its not as easy as you seem to think it is.

Originally Posted by alferret

Lol you be talking outta you posterior pal.
Just another troll!
Genetics (may not be an illness but proven) thats 1
Other health issues that have a knock-on effect that in turn leads to weight gain.
Need I go on?
EVERYONE has the right to treatment [U][I][B]EVERYONE!

I'll expand on that if you don't mind .

Underactive thyroid

Diabetes treatment

Steroid treatment

Cushing’s syndrome

Polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS)

Fluid retention

I would expect that health professionals would make judgements based on lifestyle and health history and not simply a persons BMI as the link suggested

@s james ,as you can see it really isn't as simple as you make out .It is possible to look at some one and say yes they are fat but without looking at their health history and lifestyle it is impossible to judge why they are over weight and to simply suggest that swimming ,jogging or getting off a bus a stop early is ridiculous

I think the real point is that once you start picking out one group how long is it before another group gets added to the list..and then another as funding shrinks across the NHS as a whole.Who next? Alcoholics? The elderly and infirm.The disabled?UVF treatments?

Not treating people as a cost cutting exercise is not ultimately going to save money.It will just all be pushed onto social care which is already overstretched as witnessed by bed blocking..

I think the whole issue of NHS funding needs addressing .We(the public) need to realise that funding something like the NHS in a modern world with ever increasing tech and new more costly procedures cannot be done with less tax .If a separate tax needs to be introduced or a new funding method then so be it

[RichardCoulter]

This ridiculous policy is to be reviewed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-37265752

[Gary L]

I think we shouldn't treat foreigners, OAP's, druggies, Fat people, policemen, binmen, zoo keepers and poets.

and we should give all the tax payers a big fat refund.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I think we shouldn't treat foreigners, OAP's, druggies, Fat people, policemen, binmen, zoo keepers and poets.

and we should give all the tax payers a big fat refund.

So a fat person who is a tax payer gets a refund ?

[tweetiepooh]

So much arguing back and forth here but I do think a general idea of delaying treatment in some cases because of lifestyle is appropriate. Sometimes that simple lifestyle change can be part of a wider treatment, sometimes not making that change can counter other treatment regimes.

But like all things like this the judgement needs to be done at point of treatment not by a wide ranging diktat. It's easy to say deny treatment to a particular group but it should be up to the treating team to work with the patient to achieve this. So you may require an obese person to lose weight first, it's often safer that way and if the treatment is for a condition caused or aggravated by obesity it seems logical to make that a condition for the treatment. Contrawise if the treatment will lead to the patient finding it easier to be less obese then a different outcome may be indicated.

[RichardCoulter]

I agree, it's a whole different ball game if it's for sound medical reasons as opposed to a unilateral cost cutting excercise towards systematically chosen groups.

---------- Post added at 15:56 ---------- Previous post was at 15:55 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

I think the whole issue of NHS funding needs addressing .We(the public) need to realise that funding something like the NHS in a modern world with ever increasing tech and new more costly procedures cannot be done with less tax .If a separate tax needs to be introduced or a new funding method then so be it

Totally agree, I have long advocated this approach as opposed to hiding the cost within tax and National Insurance.

The electorate have consistently voted for Governments that promise both services and tax cuts.

This was often achieved through the Tory (then renamed and continued by Labour) idea of involving the private sector.

This is much more costly in the long term, but gives politicians the pretence in the short term that we can have services for nothing, for the selfish benefit of their own political careers.

As we can see around the UK the chickens are now coming home to roost.

I think that a seperate identified tax for the NHS would be a positive move.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

So a fat person who is a tax payer gets a refund ?

Correct.

Get trading standards involved if they play silly buggers with the refunds.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by S_james

So no temp in the country can do your job? Lolol. Some temps have 20+ years experience in there fields but choose to temp because they've made enough money to no longer need to work regular hours.

You appear to have a wonderfully simplistic view of life. While I don't know what TheDaddy does for a living, there are jobs that are so specialist that it is unlikely you will find temps that can do them. A friend of mine is, on paper, a DBA at an Oil exploration company. In practise, that is only a part of his job and his skill set is so specialised that when his company closed their UK office and centralised their operations in Houston, they PAID for him to move to the States, and arranged his green card for him rather than just employ someone else. They went to all that expense despite the fact that Houston is effectively the Oil capital of the US, so they probably do have a lot of skill people there already.

However, I digress. I would suggest you provide proof of your assertion about mrmistoffelees because if you don't provide proof, what you said is libel.

Finally, life isn't as simple as the if you exercise you are healthy and if you don't, you aren't mantra you appear to be pushing. Generally, people who exercise are more healthy, but know I people who exercised regularly (one even played Rugby at club level, and was teetotal) who died of heart attacks in their 20s. The Rugby player even died in the middle of a game. Equally, I know fat people who have lived into their 80s and 90s despite doing, eating and drinking all the wrong things. Equally, I know fat people who've died. There is a large degree of genetics involved in whether you live or die.

---------- Post added at 12:14 ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I think the real point is that once you start picking out one group how long is it before another group gets added to the list..and then another as funding shrinks across the NHS as a whole.Who next? Alcoholics? The elderly and infirm.The disabled?UVF treatments?

Not treating people as a cost cutting exercise is not ultimately going to save money.It will just all be pushed onto social care which is already overstretched as witnessed by bed blocking..

Even those healthy pursuits.. Will marathon runners be refused the leg and knee surgery they frequently end up needing because they've worn out joints? Will footballers be refused surgery for the various problems they end up having? I'm not talking Professional footballers here, I'm talking at club level. The blokes who do a normal job during the day then spend their weekends and evenings playing football.

Finally, what about those with dangerous jobs? Do they get refused treatment because they may injure themselves at work? A builder that needs knee surgery because of 20 years of going up and down ladders? What about a Sales Rep who spends 90% of his time on the road, then crashes the car on his day off? Does he get Surgery? After all, he is on the road for several hours a day, a crash is inevitable at some point.