Post-Brexit Thread

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Weirdly these are the same 'dross' that people complain are taking 'their' jobs. Go figure.

Higher proportion of dross. Either way they wouldn't be taking much money back with them. They brought little here in the first place.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Higher proportion of dross. Either way they wouldn't be taking much money back with them. They brought little here in the first place.

All those stats indicating lower out of work welfare claimant levels, higher employment rates, better education levels, etc, than native British must be inaccurate I guess.

There was one stat that might have indicated 'dross' - higher levels of in-work benefit claims. These would've been largely taken care of through a combination of the measures agreed in February and the minimum wage increasing.

If you're looking for 'dross' you might be thinking of some nations outside the EU, the immigration we can control, where unemployment is 40%+, out of work welfare claims are far higher than average and levels of integration with wider society far lower we see from most of the EU-27.

[techguyone]

Originally Posted by Anypermitedroute

You mean that "stupid" system which protects people allowance of freedom of speech, ensures gay people are not persecuted and ensures everyone gas a right to fair trial, and protection of compensation to thalidomide victims amongst other items?

Sorry, but you will still be in it and British judges will still need to interprete the rulings based on this

I don't mind that, I do however, resent things like the farce surrounding the deportation of people like Abu Hamza or people not being able to be deported because they have a pet cat and things of that nature.

There IS distinct room for movement on the current ECHR so please... don't pee on my shoes and tell me it's raining.

[Anypermitedroute]

Originally Posted by techguyone

I don't mind that, I do however, resent things like the farce surrounding the deportation of people like Abu Hamza or people not being able to be deported because they have a pet cat and things of that nature.

There IS distinct room for movement on the current ECHR so please... don't pee on my shoes and tell me it's raining.

pet cats is a myth that our new PM was pulled up on in 2011, ECHR has never said that

as for Abu Hamza, ECHR took 2 years of the 10 year delay so again take that one up with British Government

We might blame EU/ECHR for a lot of things but a lot of these problems were not of EU and/or we had power to act upon it

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Anypermitedroute

pet cats is a myth that our new PM was pulled up on in 2011, ECHR has never said that

as for Abu Hamza, ECHR took 2 years of the 10 year delay so again take that one up with British Government

We might blame EU/ECHR for a lot of things but a lot of these problems were not of EU and/or we had power to act upon it

The European Court of Human Rights may have taken 2 years but the European Convention on Human Rights was responsible for ALL of those 10 years. The court is part of an appeal process. As with ANY other legal process there are many other stages before getting to a final appeal. That all takes time.

[Julian]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The European Court of Human Rights may have taken 2 years but the European Convention on Human Rights was responsible for ALL of those 10 years. The court is part of an appeal process. As with ANY other legal process there are many other stages before getting to a final appeal. That all takes time.

Indeed, the fact that our courts can make a decision which can then be questioned and overruled by a random court in europe is the problem...

[Anypermitedroute]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The European Court of Human Rights may have taken 2 years but the European Convention on Human Rights was responsible for ALL of those 10 years. The court is part of an appeal process. As with ANY other legal process there are many other stages before getting to a final appeal. That all takes time.

No, US wanted to extradite him and then our own British Government wanted to then prosecute him and took that time

either way we are going off topic as its has nothing to do with us leaving the EU

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Julian

Indeed, the fact that our courts can make a decision which can then be questioned and overruled by a random court in europe is the problem...

The bigger problem is the Immigration Tribunals where those "Judges" are actually just lawyers who have applied for the posts, meaning that those with a biased interest can rule on them.

[Pierre]

I'm a bit fuzzy on the whole European Court thing.

I thought the ECHR was nothing to do with the EU, and even if we left the EU then judgements made by the ECHR could still overule our courts.

Whereas the European Court of Justice was an EU formed body, so we would now be outside of that.

Can anyone save me the google time and advise?

Correct.

The EHCR is the enforcement body of the Council of Europe. The CofE was set up after world war 2 to monitor and prevent a repeat of the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany. We are a member of the Council of Europe and have been since founding it in 1949 (the Treaty of London in case you're interested). There are now 47 member states.

Membership of the EU is conditional on a state first being a member of the Council of Europe, but the bodies are completely independent of each other.

The European Union muddied the waters in 1985, perhaps intentionally, by stealing the Council of Europe's flag, which it had been using since 1955.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by MarkC1984

Oh ffs, does the Brexit not mean we can leave that stupid Human Rights crap?

What, Human Rights like Maternity/Paternity leave and various others?

Originally Posted by nomadking

But the British abroad tend to be the ones with money compared to the dross we have to put up with from the EU, eg one-legged Romanian roofers, family of 24 from Czech Republic with only one working.

I could argue you just believed the lies spread by the Mail and Sun, but most EU migrants pay their way. Be interesting to see if the same can be said for the British in this country. I'm thinking specifically of the millions of Chavs we have living on council (and ex-council) estates in this country.

Originally Posted by Anypermitedroute

But it also works both way, 1.8 million Brits live and work abroad,

Whilst the Vienna convention is not cast in stone I don't think it would be in britains interest to show a max exodus of EU migrants back to the continent doesn't exactly look good for business and as the European court of human rights will still be valid so expect lengthy delays whilst people have legitimately settled and bought homes fight for their right to stay.

Rules apply until we actually leave otherwise expect all the expat retirees coming back from Spain putting drain on the NHS who haven't paid in for years

The rules do apply until we actually leave,but they don't have to .It would be be easy enough and probably wise to stop all EU citizen rights as soon as A50 is triggered ,after all once A50 is triggered it cannot be stopped so it's pointless still enforcing rules that won't apply in a couple of years anyway .

We need to stop the right of travel to this country immediately or we will have a rush of migrants wanting to get here .That won't affect any migrants already here or any of the Brits living and working abroad ,i don't know where you get that idea from .

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Stuart

What, Human Rights like Maternity/Paternity leave and various others?

I could argue you just believed the lies spread by the Mail and Sun, but most EU migrants pay their way. Be interesting to see if the same can be said for the British in this country. I'm thinking specifically of the millions of Chavs we have living on council (and ex-council) estates in this country.

Those have nothing to do with the ECHR. What new ones suddenly happened when it was introduced all those decades ago? It's idea was to keep the status quo and NOT a need to add a series of new ones.

A gave 2 real examples. The family of 24 was just some of 6,000 of that grouping living in just one UK town. Add in others from that grouping from other countries/living in other towns/cities and the same with other groups, and you get a huge number, all getting housing and benefits etc. Why should other EU countries be allowed to export their dross? The fact we have our own dross doesn't make any difference. When a British ex-pat has gone over to Spain or wherever, they usually take their savings with them thereby bringing NEW additional money to that country.

Millions of chavs or working class people doing their best guess it depends what media you observe as someone on a former council estate I don't see chavs I see my neighbours and friends trying to do the best they can and still maintaining a sense of community. Another aspect of the modern UK the eu referendum bought into focus was the level of self hate a sizable majority have regarding this country and some of it's citizens May is going to need to work really hard to resolve that problem.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by martyh

The rules do apply until we actually leave,but they don't have to .It would be be easy enough and probably wise to stop all EU citizen rights as soon as A50 is triggered ,after all once A50 is triggered it cannot be stopped so it's pointless still enforcing rules that won't apply in a couple of years anyway .

That would be illegal.