[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Gavin78]

Well I don't have any doubt that it might be a rocky road if we Brexit till we find our feet. but if you want to be a 1 nation country then go for it because that is the only road we are going down.

Either that or WW3 is really coming when all these nations start fighting each other because we don't actually have a common ground.

Originally Posted by Damien

He'll be finished in the event of Brexit and he knows it. This is a gesture to get the conversation back onto the economy and he is hoping to get the question asked of Leave: "Well, that would you do?"
.

Damien ,you have an unrivalled ability to understate things

It is a clear threat to the voters "vote remain or i will punish you " it shows the way that Cameron and Osborne are thinking ...dictatorship springs to mind

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by ianch99

If you ignore the fact that the employer is a British one and you would like to think they should pay a "fair" wage for UK citizens, the outcome of your logic is that prices rise.

No immigrants that will "work for less" --> higher wages (by definition) paid to "British" workers --> higher prices

Well it's happening. However I don't see the logic. If they are paid less, how can that mean higher prices? Surely the Company has more money by paying less so can afford to lower prices? I know they don't but there it is.

---------- Post added at 10:36 ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

Doesn't quite work like that .Lots of Poles used to work on the sites with me and no way would they take less pay than the indigenous workers doing the same job .Maybe that would be true on the labour black market but not in the legitimate market

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It's utterly disgraceful for Osborne to threaten voters like that

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Vote leave have issued a road map of what should be done in the event of a leave vote

Vote Leave said over subsequent sessions of Parliament it wanted to introduce:

Finance Bill - This would abolish the 5% rate of VAT on household energy bills by amending the Value Added Tax Act 1994. It would be paid for by savings from the UK's contributions to the EU budget, Vote Leave said

National Health Service (Funding Target) Bill - The NHS would receive a £100m per week real-terms cash "transfusion", to be paid for by savings from leaving the EU

Asylum and Immigration Control Bill - "To end the automatic right of all EU citizens to enter the UK"

Free Trade Bill - The UK leaves the EU's "common commercial policy" to "restore the UK government's power to control its own trade policy"

European Communities Act 1972 (Repeal) Bill - The European Communities Act 1972, "the legal basis for the supremacy of EU law in the UK", will be repealed. "The EU Treaties will cease to form part of UK law and the European Court's jurisdiction over the UK will end," said Vote Leave.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36534802.

That seems fair to me and it should to remainers too. There is a lot of reversing of legislation to do.

---------- Post added at 10:39 ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

So they have threatened pensioners and working people now can they get any lower I really don't think when people voted in the last general election they knew what a spineless bunch they were voting in.

But they have sunk to the lowest depths. It is suggested an emergency Budget should take place if we vote leave to claw back the £30 million they claim we'll lose straight away. The poor will be hit by that. However, 57 Tory MPs have said NO to Cameron for this. I doubt it will get through Parliament.

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Originally Posted by Gavin78

Well I don't have any doubt that it might be a rocky road if we Brexit till we find our feet. but if you want to be a 1 nation country then go for it because that is the only road we are going down.

Either that or WW3 is really coming when all these nations start fighting each other because we don't actually have a common ground.

Well I think it spells the end of the EU as we know it if we leave and that can't be a bad thing. Maybe then we can get back to a kind of Common Market. I voted against the Common Market though I think it's a good idea because I and others at the time could see exactly where it would lead to. We told you so!

Originally Posted by Big Brian

But they have sunk to the lowest depths. It is suggested an emergency Budget should take place if we vote leave to claw back the £30 million they claim we'll lose straight away. The poor will be hit by that. However, 57 Tory MPs have said NO to Cameron for this. I doubt it will get through Parliament.

The point is that we won't lose £30m or whatever straight away ,under article 50, assuming that is invoked ,we remain a member until negotiations are complete, so in the best case scenario for 2 years we will still be receiving money but in reality the negotiations would take longer because all 27 nations have to agree to the terms of any negotiations.So Osborn's threat is just that a threat to punish us naughty boys and girls for voting against him

The best thing we could do in the event of a leave vote is to not invoke article 50 and just leave ,that is the only way that an emergency budget would be needed

[Osem]

Originally Posted by martyh

Damien ,you have an unrivalled ability to understate things

It is a clear threat to the voters "vote remain or i will punish you " it shows the way that Cameron and Osborne are thinking ...dictatorship springs to mind

Have the 'remainers' been promised an afterlife in heaven surrounded by virgins if they get their way I wonder? Maybe it's just a cossetted life in which there'll always be a nice perk laden non job for them somewhere amongst their Euro elite chums which accounts for their tactics or maybe something more sinister. What else could account for the way they're handling this? Maybe they think there's enough people who'll buy into fear for them to get their way but I think they're at the point now where a good many people who've been unsure of their vote will instinctively turn against them because they've lost any trust they had in these people.

Originally Posted by martyh

Damien ,you have an unrivalled ability to understate things

It is a clear threat to the voters "vote remain or i will punish you " it shows the way that Cameron and Osborne are thinking ...dictatorship springs to mind

Happy to call it that too. Either way he is throwing everything at getting the conversation back onto the economy, think he is knowingly throwing away his leadership chances.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Well I don't have any doubt that it might be a rocky road if we Brexit till we find our feet. but if you want to be a 1 nation country then go for it because that is the only road we are going down.

Either that or WW3 is really coming when all these nations start fighting each other because we don't actually have a common ground.

I've always thought that the EU's rapid expansion was ill conceived, bringing as it did so many different nations with their competing interests etc. into a club and hoping they'd all get along quite nicely. The real world isn't like that sadly and what's happening now in the EU gores to show it. Even if we concede that the intent was good, it was certainly naive to believe that such varied cultures, histories and economies could function happily under anything like the constraints of a single state, especially one dominated by Berlin.

Originally Posted by Damien

Happy to call it that too. Either way he is throwing everything at getting the conversation back onto the economy, think he is knowingly throwing away his leadership chances.

Possibly even destroying the current government

[MalteseFalcon]

I have a horrible feeling that those on benefits who vote to leave the EU will within a couple of months be hit with sanctions. No evidence for this, just a feeling I have in the pit of my stomach.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by martyh

The point is that we won't lose £30m or whatever straight away ,under article 50, assuming that is invoked ,we remain a member until negotiations are complete, so in the best case scenario for 2 years we will still be receiving money but in reality the negotiations would take longer because all 27 nations have to agree to the terms of any negotiations.So Osborn's threat is just that a threat to punish us naughty boys and girls for voting against him

The best thing we could do in the event of a leave vote is to not invoke article 50 and just leave ,that is the only way that an emergency budget would be needed

Indeed but those not as astute as us can't see that and will vote on a silly reason. Project Fear are really scared now there is an increasing possibility they will lose this vote. If the internet and those I talk to outside are anything to go by Leave will have a comfortable majority but you know what voters are?

[techguyone]

Benefit sanctions, mobile phone tariffs, 'because Tories' ...

Man have we really become so pathetic as a Country.

Originally Posted by MarkC1984

I have a horrible feeling that those on benefits who vote to leave the EU will within a couple of months be hit with sanctions. No evidence for this, just a feeling I have in the pit of my stomach.

I don't see why benefit sanctions would be imposed

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Originally Posted by techguyone

Benefit sanctions, mobile phone tariffs, 'because Tories' ...

Man have we really become so pathetic as a Country.

We need to grow a pair, get out there and lay our own path instead of doing it by proxy through the EU

Originally Posted by MarkC1984

I have a horrible feeling that those on benefits who vote to leave the EU will within a couple of months be hit with sanctions. No evidence for this, just a feeling I have in the pit of my stomach.

And how would they know?

Whilst I'm sure before the vote there will be some threat levelled at benefit claimants why should they escape, I don't believe sanctions will be targeted at those who vote leave and as Hugh said how would they know. I think your being generous Damien in relation to Osbourne I don't think he thought of this as a tactic to get discussion back onto the economy it was a threat pure and simple and the worst type a conservative Chancellor should attempt. If there is a momentum towards leave remains negative campaigning is a big reason for it.

We are going to be in such a mess politically after this referendum that only a general election has a chance of sorting it to any degree. Given the options though sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't and between british mp's looking for ways to overturn the referendum if it's to leave and the eurocrats looking for ways on their end to overturn it we need strong politicians to do any negotiating and where they are coming from I don't know.

[techguyone]

If nothing else maybe it'll finally sort out the big Tory problem of Pro/Anti EU sides it's been one of their biggest failings for many years.