[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

That comes next week Damien after Cameron's revelation that it's now been confirmed that if the uk votes leave a child will be born with 666 on it's head .

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

Trouble is back in the days before the 60's it was rare to see a non white face.

My mum told me when I was walking under a underpass with her I saw my first black guy, I said in typical 2/3 year old voice "MUMMY WHATS THAT" pointing him out, he passed my mum laughing.

Some silver surfers form that era would like those days back.

It wasn't just black or Asian peoples, but pretty much all immigrants.

The British people at the time did not want large scale immigration yet it was foisted on them first from Ireland, then the Caribbean and then the Indian sub continent.

I once worked with a lady of Asian (Hindu) origins whom I thought had fully integrated into our society. She was born here.... But, during a conversation with her on the day of Diana's death, the subject of nationality and culture came up.

She made clear to me that she had her own culture and was proud of that. I agreed with her but said we were all basically the same even with all our little differences. This seems to anger her as she then went on to itemise (literally writing a list on paper!) of every single difference between us.

I was genuinely shocked. Firstly, that she thought this way and secondly that she was correct, even down to how she had a meal. There were differences and it's those differences that very much shape whom we are, what we feel about ourselves and the wider world.

My first experience of non-British people was when a Pakistani/Bangladeshi elderly couple moved into my road in the 70s. I was a young child and very curious about everything and this couple certainly peaked my interest with their unusual clothes and language.

I'd always said hello to them, but never really talked to them, but on one particular day the curiosity got the better of me. I marched over to them as this 7 year old was on a critical mission...

I went up to the lady and asked her why she always walked 10 feet behind her husband, never at his side. She smiled, but didn't respond. So I asked her again and she said its what we do in our culture. I didn't not understand, then a neighbour of mine who had been watching all this said they were foreign and have different ways. I still didn't understand.

Ever since then I've always been tolerant of different people from different backgrounds, but remembering the words of my former work colleague, people choose and want to be different and retain their own culture.

After all these years, my opinions on things such as immigration and people from different cultures has changed. If people want to come to Britain, they need to become British. I am voting out because that is the only way to ensure this.

Whether you are a silver surfer or not, it is not wrong to expect people in your own country to live by the same norms and standards as you and collectively to think in similar ways for common goals. If everyone has their own culture and does their own thing, how can our British society continue?

Originally Posted by Horizon

After all these years, my opinions on things such as immigration and people from different cultures has changed. If people want to come to Britain, they need to become British. I am voting out because that is the only way to ensure this.

Whether you are a silver surfer or not, it is not wrong to expect people in your own country to live by the same norms and standards as you and collectively to think in similar ways for common goals. If everyone has their own culture and does their own thing, how can our British society continue?

People should integrate, speak English and there shouldn't be segregated areas but people should also be able to retain their own culture as far as is it is compatible with liberal Western society.

The country would be a monotonous bore if people were made to be the same. The examples you gave at the top of his post: the Irish, the Caribbeans and the Indians have given great things to Britain and our society. Food, music and art have all had influences from these immigrant communities. If they were made to comply with what is British and were made to think in 'similar ways' then that would be terrible and destructive to our culture. It would just die a slow death and fail to evolve.

Besides British culture was all for importing different cultural influences long before immigration, i.e Empire.

I don't really think this has a lot to do with Leaving either. Vote Leave haven't really pushed the culture thing and many have even indicated more immigration from outside the EU from places which are less culturally similar than many European nations.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

People should integrate, speak English and there shouldn't be segregated areas but people should also be able to retain their own culture as far as is it is compatible with liberal Western society.

The country would be a monotonous bore if people were made to be the same. The examples you gave at the top of his post: the Irish, the Caribbeans and the Indians have given great things to Britain and our society. Food, music and art have all had influences from these immigrant communities. If they were made to comply with what is British and were made to think in 'similar ways' then that would be terrible and destructive to our culture. It would just die a slow death and fail to evolve.

Besides British culture was all for importing different cultural influences long before immigration, i.e Empire.

But what do we do if they don't want to? If they're invited here, allowed to come or even given asylum and still don't want to integrate? We're a pretty tolerant nation but many people want to take advantage of that whilst being themselves intolerant, unwilling to mix or accept our ways. That's the problem.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Damien

People should integrate, speak English and there shouldn't be segregated areas but people should also be able to retain their own culture as far as is it is compatible with liberal Western society.

The country would be a monotonous bore if people were made to be the same. The examples you gave at the top of his post: the Irish, the Caribbeans and the Indians have given great things to Britain and our society. Food, music and art have all had influences from these immigrant communities. If they were made to comply with what is British and were made to think in 'similar ways' then that would be terrible and destructive to our culture. It would just die a slow death and fail to evolve.

Besides British culture was all for importing different cultural influences long before immigration, i.e Empire.

Up until recently, I would have fully agreed with you.

But if you add up one little difference to another, to another etc, then you get a lot of differences.

Yes, we have different foods, arts, music from all over. But British people do not know our own food, arts, music etc now.

Outside influences are fine, enrichment is fine as long as it does not become a flood which it has. That is what destructive to our culture and why it is dying a slow death. So much so, that most people don't even realise it.

Originally Posted by Osem

But what do we do if they don't want to? If they're invited here, allowed to come or even given asylum and still don't want to integrate? We're a pretty tolerant nation but many people want to take advantage of that whilst being themselves intolerant, unwilling to mix or accept our ways. That's the problem.

Well I am not sure what we can actually do. Above my skill set to work on that kind of problem.

Maybe it depends how we manage it. Literally everything from where those granted asylum are placed, the communities structures around them, free English lessons and so on. We shouldn't underestimate the value to people of keeping elements of their own culture though. If I am abroad for more than a week I need to find proper tea and a fry-up pretty quickly.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Osem

But what do we do if they don't want to? If they're invited here, allowed to come or even given asylum and still don't want to integrate? We're a pretty tolerant nation but many people want to take advantage of that whilst being themselves intolerant, unwilling to mix or accept our ways. That's the problem.

Simple, they should be chucked out.

Originally Posted by Horizon

Up until recently, I would have fully agreed with you.

But if you add up one little difference to another, to another etc, then you get a lot of differences.

So what? As long as they're not harming anyone then good luck to them. Again people being different is far more interesting than people being the same.

Yes, we have different foods, arts, music from all over. But British people do not know our own food, arts, music etc now.

Outside influences are fine, enrichment is fine as long as it does not become a flood which it has. That is what destructive to our culture and why it is dying a slow death. So much so, that most people don't even realise it.

Our culture is not weak enough to get overridden so easily. Harry Potter is one of the most successful books and film franchises in the world, from a British writer, continuing a British trend of excellent children's writing. We still produce many of the world's biggest pop and rock acts. We have many excellent actors and actresses working on international franchises. The newest Star Wars has two British actors in the lead roles (one of whom is the British born son of Nigerian immigrants)! and it's filmed here! with a largely British production staff!

We continue to have a massively successful film, music and literature industry which is only made more impressive by our relatively small size.

I do not want to live in a Britain where I have to travel more than 5 miles to find a chicken madras.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Horizon

Simple, they should be chucked out.

Should the British "ex-pats" be chucked out of Spain? Your logic would say yes?

There is a whiff of double standards here: when the British are abroad everyone should speak English but when people come here, different matter it seems ...

---------- Post added at 22:29 ---------- Previous post was at 22:22 ----------

Is Boris planning a coup post Brexit?

Boris Johnson furiously denies plotting against David Cameron after being caught asking about potential rebels

Boris Johnson has reportedly admitted to discussing the possibility of a leadership coup against David Cameron.

The former mayor visited Tory backbencher Alec Shelbrooke in his Westminster office and reportedly discussed how many potential rebels there were to trigger a no-confidence vote.

An anonymous source told the Mail on Sunday that Mr Johnson asked Mr Shelbrooke if there were the required 50 MPs to trigger a vote after the EU Referendum.

Mr Shelbrooke was overheard saying he thought Mr Johnson was “digging” for information and had told him there were only 20 rebels “at the most”.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

So what? As long as they're not harming anyone then good luck to them. Again people being different is far more interesting than people being the same.




Our culture is not weak enough to get overridden so easily. Harry Potter is one of the most successful books and film franchises in the world, from a British writer, continuing a British trend of excellent children's writing. We still produce many of the world's biggest pop and rock acts. We have many excellent actors and actresses working on international franchises. The newest Star Wars has two British actors in the lead roles (one of whom is the British born son of Nigerian immigrants)! and it's filmed here! with a largely British production staff!

We continue to have a massively successful film, music and literature industry which is only made more impressive by our relatively small size.

I do not want to live in a Britain where I have to travel more than 5 miles to find a chicken madras.

Leaving the EU is hardly likely to cause that to happen.

The scale of the numbers and the pressure that puts on society is what's creating the issue, making the influx so much more noticeable and making it easier for migrants not to integrate. The EU is only part of that issue however.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Damien

So what? As long as they're not harming anyone then good luck to them. Again people being different is far more interesting than people being the same.




Our culture is not weak enough to get overridden so easily. Harry Potter is one of the most successful books and film franchises in the world, from a British writer, continuing a British trend of excellent children's writing. We still produce many of the world's biggest pop and rock acts. We have many excellent actors and actresses working on international franchises. The newest Star Wars has two British actors in the lead roles (one of whom is the British born son of Nigerian immigrants)! and it's filmed here! with a largely British production staff!

We continue to have a massively successful film, music and literature industry which is only made more impressive by our relatively small size.

I do not want to live in a Britain where I have to travel more than 5 miles to find a chicken madras.

I think for people who obey the law, pay their taxes, speak English etc, then I would be uneasy about any change of policy against them.

But taking Norman Tebbit's cricket test, as an example and I don't know how old you are or if you know what I am talking about. (Norman Tebbit, a former Conservative politician, questioned the allegiances of people from foreign origins if they support a country other than a UK one at cricket.)

If someone does support a sports team (assuming they follow sports at all) and its not a UK one, how can we truly say that person is British and integrated into our society when they support a foreign team?

---------- Post added at 23:13 ---------- Previous post was at 23:06 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Should the British "ex-pats" be chucked out of Spain? Your logic would say yes?

There is a whiff of double standards here: when the British are abroad everyone should speak English but when people come here, different matter it seems .]

This is a very good example, actually.

I once considered living in Spain, I love it there, speak a bit of the language and like many aspects of the culture, but not all.... and one aspect I especially didn't like was the British ex pats.

Many of the ex pats do not integrate and make it very clear they will never integrate into Spanish society. You see British/English flags everywhere in some parts of Spain (Benidorm and the like) and its horrible. The Germans are no better in "their" areas.

If I were the Spanish, I would throw them out, yes. If you live in someone's else's country you live by their standards and customs.

---------- Post added at 23:30 ---------- Previous post was at 23:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

Leaving the EU is hardly likely to cause that to happen.

The scale of the numbers and the pressure that puts on society is what's creating the issue, making the influx so much more noticeable and making it easier for migrants not to integrate. The EU is only part of that issue however.

It's not just purely numbers though.

It is whether people who come from a different country, can integrate into our society. In many cases the answer is yes, but more worrying, it is the children and grandchildren of those immigrants who are born here is where the problems lie. This has been brewing for a very long time.

So, it's not just a numbers issue, as you say though greater numbers to highlight things more.

[Gavin78]

How does that work for those that come here from their country have kids and they have kids yet they still don't class this as home and live by the rules of their culture despite being 3 generations into British Society?

It gets me if there is a problem in the Asian community and you then hear the chief of police say we will speak to the Asian community leaders and work with them the best we can. You only have to look at the west yorkshire website for wanted and in court or sentenced pictures and they are of a foreign background and a lot of the organised child abuse rings are all usually foreign in nature.

I live in Leeds so you'll see Harehills has been taken over by every other nationality from shops and food even loads of sikh temples, jewish a lot of the schools around there are mainly foreign nationals

While I'm all for a mixture of their own home they have taken over the whole area and you'll find a generation of them that were born here still don't class themselves as british and will segregate themselves from your society and always refer to their own country despite only ever visiting the place for a holiday.

So I can see why some see it as an issue even myself working in the NHS I see some of them can't speak english or refuse despite being over here for 20 years

If we have no other criteria on entering this country it should be a good standard of the English language written and spoken and if you can't or don't want too cya stay where you are. In Leicester there is an issue with certain Asian groups came over in the seventies and still do not regard the uk as home in any meaningful way many do not speak English and will not interact with non Asian people. As a regular visitor to the Royal infirmary I am routinely annoyed at the behaviour and conduct of some Asians and before anyone says no other groups do not do the same thing it is an exclusively Asian tactic of mobbing the doctors and nurses to get their friends and family seen before anyone else.

There is a problem in this country and I do think our tolerance has been abused and it has to stop before something like the bhp cash in on it again and a very bad situation arises.

[Stephen]

So does that mean all those from the UK that have retired or moved to Europe should be able to speak and write in the netive language of that country?

~I~f we leave the EU should all those people be made to come back to the UK if they can't?

[Gavin78]

Originally Posted by Stephen

So does that mean all those from the UK that have retired or moved to Europe should be able to speak and write in the netive language of that country?

~I~f we leave the EU should all those people be made to come back to the UK if they can't?

I think at least there should be enough written and spoken language in order to have some form of communication no matter who the person is and where they are.

I think that lessons on the culture and language should be free and on offer when going to live in that country?