UK loses faith

[pip08456]

To me this thread is mis-titled.

Faith comes in many forms not just christianity.

The Mosques are not suffering mor the synagogues, nor buddism et al.

Is christianity suffering at it's churches? - Yes, but that doesn't mean the UK is losing faith. How many Immans or Rabbis etc do you hear about abusing childeren and then wonder why?

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Is christianity suffering at it's churches? - Yes,

I think many of the churches today have a lot to answer for regarding the decline of Christianity.

They are preaching a social form of christianity, rather than Salvation by repentance of personal sin and faith in the true Christian Gospel of Jesus dying for our sins, being buried, and being raised from the dead on the third day.

Some are teaching that everyone is a son of God, which is not scriptural; “Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God — children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.” (John 1 12-13 NIV)

There is no power in the social gospel; there is no help from the Holy Spirit within a person to proclaim the truth of the Bible, because such a person is not Born Again. They are powerless to stand against the influences of political correctness watering down the churches beliefs.

Sadly, many churches are preaching ‘Churchianity’, not Christianity. On it’s own, going to church won’t save anyone; trusting in Jesus and what he did for us on the cross will.

But God always makes sure that there are still Spirit filled Bible believing Christians around.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I think another reason why we have lost our faith.

Sunday, is supposed to be the day of rest, and go to church. Sadly, all the shops are open, even on Xmas day. So religion has gone out the door. We have so many people fighting over religion.

We have lost that faith. I am a great believer that you don't have to go to church to pray, but l respect other peoples religion.

But l don't expect other religions to be thrust down our throats, such as Jehovah's that knock on our doors on 'baptism' days at Twickenham. I am five minutes from there.

I will always help out someone in need, no matter who they are.

[Matth]

Religion exists in the unknown, and science is making the unknown a much smaller place and correcting mistakes in a way which was at one time called heresy.
The "heavens" do not revolve around the Earth. We have sent spaceships up and there is nothing up there, while "down below" there is a pretty good approximation to hellfire.

I think religious education, if trying to be inclusive, should also cover the perfectly valid points of atheism and agnosticism, after all, any religion is only someone else's interpretation of unreliable non-information.

Originally Posted by Matth

Religion exists in the unknown, and science is making the unknown a much smaller place and correcting mistakes in a way which was at one time called heresy.
The "heavens" do not revolve around the Earth. We have sent spaceships up and there is nothing up there, while "down below" there is a pretty good approximation to hellfire.

I think religious education, if trying to be inclusive, should also cover the perfectly valid points of atheism and agnosticism, after all, any religion is only someone else's interpretation of unreliable non-information.

This is to assume (mistakenly) that the purpose of religion is to explain the material universe. It's a common misconception, and to be fair, religious leaders down the ages haven't helped their own cause. The medieval Roman Catholic hierarchy was particularly bad at this, but let's not forget that the Renaissance and the Christian reformation went hand in hand - Christianity began to re-focus on the actual teachings of the Bible and this freed up the arts and sciences to begin thinking and exploring, unencumbered by spurious notions of the forbidden.

The Bible establishes God as creator, his creation as fallen, and his intention to redeem (save, rescue) human beings from an eternity banished from his presence. Science has nothing to say about any of these things, nor can it. Science explains the mechanics of the material universe. It can say what happens, and how, in extraordinary detail, but it cannot say why. Sadly, some have come to the conclusion that anything science can't address is irrelevant, or non-existent. That, I think, is a real pity. However I agree that a programme of religious education should address that and attempt to explore people's reasons for believing it.

[Kursk]

Behold, a sower went forth to sow.

And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up;

Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth;

And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them.

But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

This is to assume (mistakenly) that the purpose of religion is to explain the material universe. It's a common misconception, and to be fair, religious leaders down the ages haven't helped their own cause. The medieval Roman Catholic hierarchy was particularly bad at this, but let's not forget that the Renaissance and the Christian reformation went hand in hand - Christianity began to re-focus on the actual teachings of the Bible and this freed up the arts and sciences to begin thinking and exploring, unencumbered by spurious notions of the forbidden.

The Bible establishes God as creator, his creation as fallen, and his intention to redeem (save, rescue) human beings from an eternity banished from his presence. Science has nothing to say about any of these things, nor can it. Science explains the mechanics of the material universe. It can say what happens, and how, in extraordinary detail, but it cannot say why. Sadly, some have come to the conclusion that anything science can't address is irrelevant, or non-existent. That, I think, is a real pity. However I agree that a programme of religious education should address that and attempt to explore people's reasons for believing it.

There is an irony regarding your reply in that science also began thinking and exploring, unencumbered by the notions of a divine creator. It is this clarity of the How without a need for a Why that has contributed to the OP's point.

I worry about the statement: "a programme of religious education should address that" Could be misinterpreted as rather sinister ..

How is it sinister? Every school in the UK offers a programme of religious education. It's called a syllabus and it leads to a GCSE or whatever.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

How is it sinister? Every school in the UK offers a programme of religious education. It's called a syllabus and it leads to a GCSE or whatever.

I very much doubt the intended role of the GCSE in Religious Studies is to affirm the validity of any particular faith. Nor is its role to attempt to pursuade those who believe science, rather than religion can explain the natural world.

I agree. Who suggested otherwise?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

I agree. Who suggested otherwise?

You did

Sadly, some have come to the conclusion that anything science can't address is irrelevant, or non-existent. That, I think, is a real pity. However I agree that a programme of religious education should address

Originally Posted by ianch99

You did

Eh?

I'm agreeing with Matth, who suggested that RE classes should also cover atheism. I even quoted him.

Context, dear boy, context.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

Eh?

I'm agreeing with Matth, who suggested that RE classes should also cover atheism. I even quoted him.

Context, dear boy, context.

I was just reading your post: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...l#post35840776

Oh well, no matter ..

[passingbat]

Modern physics is not at all at odds with people who believe in creation, that the Bible is Divinely inspired and that God is in control and knows the end from the beginning. God knowing the end from the beginning explains why, although the Bible was written over a period of two thousand years and by over forty different authors, the whole of the Bible gives an integrated message; the authors were divinely inspired. Therefore the fulfilment of Biblical prophecy should not be a surprise and we can have confidence that those not fulfilled yet (end time prophecies) will be fulfilled.

The discovery by modern science that we live in at least ten dimensions; four we physicaly know of, and six we can’t see, makes the sudden appearance of Jesus in a closed room after his resurrection, not in any way at odds with a scientific perspective. It’s interesting that someone studying Genesis, hundreds of years ago, came to the same conclusion; that we live in a ten dimensional world.

There is a time consuming but interesting four part study on this, available on Youtube, by Dr. Chuck Missler. It covers from early science to quantum theory and also covers mathematical statistical probability.

Chuck Missler has been a Bible believing Christian for over sixty years, and has also worked in the fields of science and technology.

Each of the four sessions were originally in two parts, but have been combined in each youtube video

First video: Beyond Space and Time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIre...ftQIOHVNxU3L5n

Second: BEYOND COINCIDENCE - The Boundaries of Our Reality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQbr...ftQIOHVNxU3L5n

Third: Beyond Perception
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8g7...ftQIOHVNxU3L5n

Fourth: Beyond Newton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy_w...ftQIOHVNxU3L5n

The videos were made in 2010.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by passingbat

Modern physics is not at all at odds with people who believe in creation, that the Bible is Divinely inspired and that God is in control and knows the end from the beginning. God knowing the end from the beginning explains why, although the Bible was written over a period of two thousand years and by over forty different authors, the whole of the Bible gives an integrated message; the authors were divinely inspired. Therefore the fulfilment of Biblical prophecy should not be a surprise and we can have confidence that those not fulfilled yet (end time prophecies) will be fulfilled.

The discovery by modern science that we live in at least ten dimensions; four we physicaly know of, and six we can’t see, makes the sudden appearance of Jesus in a closed room after his resurrection, not in any way at odds with a scientific perspective. It’s interesting that someone studying Genesis, hundreds of years ago, came to the same conclusion; that we live in a ten dimensional world.

There is a time consuming but interesting four part study on this, available on Youtube, by Dr. Chuck Missler. It covers from early science to quantum theory and also covers mathematical statistical probability.

Chuck Missler has been a Bible believing Christian for over sixty years, and has also worked in the fields of science and technology.

Each of the four sessions were originally in two parts, but have been combined in each youtube video

First video: Beyond Space and Time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIre...ftQIOHVNxU3L5n

Second: BEYOND COINCIDENCE - The Boundaries of Our Reality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQbr...ftQIOHVNxU3L5n

Third: Beyond Perception
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8g7...ftQIOHVNxU3L5n

Fourth: Beyond Newton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy_w...ftQIOHVNxU3L5n

The videos were made in 2010.

You should read the The God Delusion ...