[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

I can see a future with one world government. Closer would be a more centralised Euro government for better and closer ties, better defence and so on. It may be done in stages. It will likely try to show how national identity is more a hindrance to peace and anyone who doesn't agree is really the enemy of "right thinking people". This could be a response to some "external" threat.

Your Utopian dream is just that, a dream. I wish it would be possible but it would never happen and certainly not to the benefit of the working man.

Just look at the recent events in the Ukraine. The rest of the world told Putin not to move troops in, what did he do? Annex the Crimea. What did the rest of the world do? Put sanctions in place What difference has it made? Nothing!

Like it or not people from different areas of the world will have irreconcilable differences, we all wish it would be otherwise but it never wil be.

[tweetiepooh]

Hardly Uptopia, I am not for central control at all. And you are right it would not be to the benefit of the public at all, though there would have to be some benefits.

And while we are all different it's not hard to find a common enemy, again in stages and appropriate to the arena. So central Euro would be different from central control in Africa, Americas', Asia. It would be the malcontents opposing Union that would be a threat, never ending of course, requiring more and tighter regulation. After all, all right thinking people want peace, stability etc.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

I can see a future with one world government. Closer would be a more centralised Euro government for better and closer ties, better defence and so on. It may be done in stages. It will likely try to show how national identity is more a hindrance to peace and anyone who doesn't agree is really the enemy of "right thinking people". This could be a response to some "external" threat.

Well That's what the EU want but it would be run from Brussels and only for their benefit. If you think that's the way to go then that's fine but I don't think in today's climate that free movement around all of Europe is the way to go. Think of the field day the terrorists would have. Even more so if they had free movement around the world.

[pip08456]

You've contradicted your OP

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

I can see a future with one world government. Closer would be a more centralised Euro government for better and closer ties, better defence and so on. It may be done in stages. It will likely try to show how national identity is more a hindrance to peace and anyone who doesn't agree is really the enemy of "right thinking people". This could be a response to some "external" threat.

Hardly Uptopia, I am not for central control at all. And you are right it would not be to the benefit of the public at all, though there would have to be some benefits.

And while we are all different it's not hard to find a common enemy, again in stages and appropriate to the arena. So central Euro would be different from central control in Africa, Americas', Asia. It would be the malcontents opposing Union that would be a threat, never ending of course, requiring more and tighter regulation. After all, all right thinking people want peace, stability etc.

Closer ties between other countries, cultures and peoples is something I would welcome with open arms. I am a realist and know that will never happpen. Nothing that the politicans do would benefit be to the benefit of the public and there will always be malcontents. That is life, get used to it.

What you want, as I, is a utopian dream which will never come to pass. At least I can see why not.

[Osem]

I see the Electoral Commission isn't exactly covering itself in glory, again...

Following Guido’s story that a number of EU citizens had been sent referendum polling cards despite not having a vote, the Electoral Commission has confirmed an IT glitch meant people were wrongly sent ballots and postal votes:

http://order-order.com

Pretty poor really.

Originally Posted by Osem

I see the Electoral Commission isn't exactly covering itself in glory, again...



http://order-order.com

Pretty poor really.

:roll eyes: It just something worrying about their underlying systems for this sort of thing.

In other news Ryanair continue to troll the Leave campaign: http://news.sky.com/story/1705985/ry...er-for-eu-poll

Ryanair is intensifying its barrage of communications supporting a 'Remain' vote in the EU referendum by urging millions customers to register ahead of next week's deadline.

[Gavin78]

Who watched the sky news interview with DC tonight?

For me it seemed more of the same old repetitive drivel that has been coming out of his mouth for months.

Firstly because we have stuff already in place with the EU even if we pulled out we are so intertwined within the EU unlike USA/Canada and China as an example then our trade agreements can not simply just be pulled out.

The car manufacturers wont pull out and stop trading with the UK and neither will any other EU country they will lose money and as much as DC might talk about job loses for companies moving to the EU then all these other companies trading with the UK could also go under. he's not very clear on how this will affect the EU only Britain and we have a big impact on the EU.

Same with women talking about her son and daughter in London about lower paid jobs DC seems to think staying in will create more jobs which we all know is nonsense. 330k migrants coming into the country and more to follow they are taking up all the low paid jobs.


DC seemed to forget to mention this. He compared a Canada type trade deal but because we are already part of the EU and have this special status as he keeps going on about then perhaps the UK will have it's own "UK" type trade deal in order to keep the EU going and lets face it the EU is worried other countries might jump ship if we go so we have a better outlook on this if we leave.

Still hasn't changed my mind but lets wait and see what the out campaign say tomorrow

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I didn't see the rubbish. I don't listen to a PM, that cannot even look after his own country. The deal that he made with Brussels, was even condemned by The Sun.

I will be voting Leave, for the simplr reason is that, l want the UK back under British control, Not Brussels.

Why should we pay more to them, then we get back.

Trade will still come to the UK, no matter what DC says. We might even do more trade with abroad.

Its about money.

And we will then be able to control our OWN borders. Nothing that DC on immigration is to be believed.

He doesn't even know how many people have come into this Country. Most of them have come through the beaches of Kent.

After the vote, l can see the knives out for DC and Osborne. And an election in October

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Who watched the sky news interview with DC tonight?

For me it seemed more of the same old repetitive drivel that has been coming out of his mouth for months.

Firstly because we have stuff already in place with the EU even if we pulled out we are so intertwined within the EU unlike USA/Canada and China as an example then our trade agreements can not simply just be pulled out.

The car manufacturers wont pull out and stop trading with the UK and neither will any other EU country they will lose money and as much as DC might talk about job loses for companies moving to the EU then all these other companies trading with the UK could also go under. he's not very clear on how this will affect the EU only Britain and we have a big impact on the EU.

Same with women talking about her son and daughter in London about lower paid jobs DC seems to think staying in will create more jobs which we all know is nonsense. 330k migrants coming into the country and more to follow they are taking up all the low paid jobs.


DC seemed to forget to mention this. He compared a Canada type trade deal but because we are already part of the EU and have this special status as he keeps going on about then perhaps the UK will have it's own "UK" type trade deal in order to keep the EU going and lets face it the EU is worried other countries might jump ship if we go so we have a better outlook on this if we leave.

Still hasn't changed my mind but lets wait and see what the out campaign say tomorrow

I haven't seen it as yet but saw a bit on the News this morning. The bit that caught my attention was DC saying migration can be managed by staying in the EU. Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the same DC who said it would be down to 10s of thousands or lower by 2015? So this is managing migration while being in the EU?

The other thing both sides seem to be doing is when leave are asked about the economy they manage to turn the subject to immigration and when remain are asked about immigration they turn to the economy.

---------- Post added at 08:15 ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 ----------

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I didn't see the rubbish. I don't listen to a PM, that cannot even look after his own country. The deal that he made with Brussels, was even condemned by The Sun.

I will be voting Leave, for the simplr reason is that, l want the UK back under British control, Not Brussels.

Why should we pay more to them, then we get back.

Trade will still come to the UK, no matter what DC says. We might even do more trade with abroad.

Its about money.

And we will then be able to control our OWN borders. Nothing that DC on immigration is to be believed.

He doesn't even know how many people have come into this Country. Most of them have come through the beaches of Kent.

After the vote, l can see the knives out for DC and Osborne. And an election in October

A good and valid reason for voting leave. I cast my vote on that as my main reason - I have a postal vote and have voted leave.

The waffle and bluff and bluster DC comes out with is just that. A good Scottish word for it is pish! Excuse the Gaelic.

Of course we'll still get access to the criminal databases. It wouldn't be in either interest to deny us access to that.

Trade will still continue on June 24th as it will take about 10 years to untangle ourselves from the EU.

EU Citizens will NOT be kicked out the country. I believe they'll be given the choice to take British Citizenship or go home.

Immigration and Migration will NOT come down if we remain in the EU, it will increase as more countries join.

Other EU Countries WILL trade with us as we have what they need and visa versa.

The economy will NOT crash as a result of leaving because of the reasons above. Oh there will be a period of uncertainty but because the world won't end on June 24th it will be nowhere as bad as they say it will.

[Osem]

I'm afraid we're going to get more of this 'we can control/reform/choose...' blah blah blah garbage even though our experience of the last couple of decades has proved otherwise. The Euro-supporters have no answers for the main questions on sovereignty, free movement, ever closer union, reform etc. so all that's left for them is weasel words and false promises and if we fall for it now it'll be back to business as usual when the dust settles. The EU is a one trick pony, it was set up for one reason and its entire raison d'etre is the opposite of what they're now starting to claim is the way forward. Pledges before an election? Yeah right, we all know where most of them go after the votes have been won...

[Ramrod]

It was nice seeing Cameron get a kicking on Sky last night

Originally Posted by Ramrod

It was nice seeing Cameron get a kicking on Sky last night

Think he held his own to be honest. I would say most of the reaction has been neutral. It was decent, tough questions, relatively well dealt with. No real win or loss for either side.

[Osem]

I didn't see it but really think he's let himself down exceptionally badly over his handling of this. After all the hard talking prior to the supposed renegotiations, he's reneged on virtually everything he said he wanted and has become part of the machine. As PM I don't expect him not to have a view or not to argue the case for it but I do expect him to treat the electorate with a good deal more respect that has been the case with the incessant diet of scaremongering which IMHO has been orchestrated by people who don't have the best interests of the UK (or Europe) at heart as much as they have their own.

[Taf]

Cameron stating that he can control immigration, but he can't under EU rules, and has failed miserably up to now.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Damien

Think he held his own to be honest. I would say most of the reaction has been neutral. It was decent, tough questions, relatively well dealt with. No real win or loss for either side.

That's the feeling I get from it though I didn't see it. At least we got our points across from what I saw on this morning's News and that's what wavering voters will hear. He kept harping back to the economic argument cos he couldn't deal with the immigration one and if he got a kicking, that's where he got it.