[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Kursk]

On Andrew Marr this morning, Yanis Varoufakis (former Finance Minister for Greece) quoted Hotel California in relation to Britain and the EU: "You can check-out any time you like, but you can never leave".

Of course, poorer Countries want us to stay in; those of us who want to leave are in for one hell of a fight whatever happens on 23 June.

Where will it all end? Certainly, not in June whatever the outcome of the vote is.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by martyh

Farming is a good example to use because it shows how much we depend on foreign workers in certain industries,there is actually a whole industry set up to supply farm workers from across the EU ,one such company here and should we leave the EU we will still need those workers as we always have
Here's another link giving a good perspective of how the farming industry relies on migrant workers

http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/analysis-f...eft-the-eu.htm

Indeed and that would probably not stop but the point is we used to do all that work ourselves. I'm not against migration I only want our Government to have the right to control it. It is the only way we can get the figures down to anywhere near what the Government promised in the Election.

---------- Post added at 11:39 ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 ----------

Originally Posted by Kursk

On Andrew Marr this morning, Yanis Varoufakis (former Finance Minister for Greece) quoted Hotel California in relation to Britain and the EU: "You can check-out any time you like, but you can never leave".

Of course, poorer Countries want us to stay in; those of us who want to leave are in for one hell of a fight whatever happens on 23 June.

Where will it all end? Certainly, not in June whatever the outcome of the vote is.

Yes I thought that was an excellent reference he made. It is true because we will still trade with them.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Kursk

On Andrew Marr this morning, Yanis Varoufakis (former Finance Minister for Greece) quoted Hotel California in relation to Britain and the EU: "You can check-out any time you like, but you can never leave".

That's the first time I've ever agreed with that idiot. Strange days indeed!

[nomadking]

The issue around the amount of rebate can easily be countered by pointing out that the EU wants to reduce and even eliminate it. It has already been reduced. What would it be in 10 years time?

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The issue around the amount of rebate can easily be countered by pointing out that the EU wants to reduce and even eliminate it. It has already been reduced. What would it be in 10 years time?

There won't be a rebate in 10 years. I believe they are trying to end it. Or rather other member states do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36085281

[Osem]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The issue around the amount of rebate can easily be countered by pointing out that the EU wants to reduce and even eliminate it. It has already been reduced. What would it be in 10 years time?

Just like our remaining powers, it will be eroded away until Brussels calls all the shots at which time it'll be too late to do anything about it. Despite the occasional duplicitous, Bliar-like, remarks about learning from mistakes, being less bureaucratic/controlling, blah, blah, blah, they have no intention of doing anything of the sort. Given the wealth of experience we've had over the decades I find it truly astonishing that anyone would believe anything else.

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by Osem

Just like our remaining powers, it will be eroded away until Brussels calls all the shots at which time it'll be too late to do anything about it. Despite the occasional duplicitous, Bliar-like, remarks about learning from mistakes, being less bureaucratic/controlling, blah, blah, blah, they have no intention of doing anything of the sort. Given the wealth of experience we've had over the decades I find it truly astonishing that anyone would believe anything else.

I found it interesting that despite being Chancellor Of The Exchequer, George Osborne did not use official figures to support his argument.

He could have said that we pay a gross amount of £x billion to the EU each year but we receive a rebate of £y million as well as £z million in grants to the UK.

This would have given the public some concrete data to work with and we would have avoided all the pointless argument over how much we pay and how much we receive in our dealings with the EU.

In that way voters would appreciate more any increases in our contribution or reductions in our rebate or grants.

As usual it looks like the Conservatives are trying to use impressions of what is happening to cover the reality.

It would be ironic if David Cameron's Project Fear comments actually spurred people to vote leave or if he was deposed from his position of PM.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Yes I thought that was an excellent reference he made. It is true because we will still trade with them.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

That's the first time I've ever agreed with that idiot. Strange days indeed!

You probably also heard the point he made about the predicted economic disaster being put forward by Remain: he said that from the point of view of the economist, the actual sample for assessment is zero because there is no measure for something (Brexit) that has never happened before.

You probably also saw Tony Blair .

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ebate-election

The Tories are moving against Cameron and may even be willing to prove another General Election to get this. This doesn't help the Leave campaign either as a week they wanted to spend talking about immigration may be derailed talking about the Tory Wars.

[Gavin78]

Well look at it another way I heard on the radio today not sure who was making the comment yet I had to agree that they said no prime minster would ever jeopardise the country for their own gains and all this fear factor is just hot air.

That if it were so true as to the economic down turn if we were to leave they would never have let the vote go forward in the first place on the off chance our economy would crash and we would be isloated from the EU and the rest of the world.

I was voting out anyway but I have to agree I don't think leaving will be anywhere near as bad as predicted

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

I was voting out anyway but I have to agree I don't think leaving will be anywhere near as bad as predicted

Me too and I think that we'll do really well if we leave.......and even if we do badly for a while, we'll get over it and move on. With our new found democracy

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Well look at it another way I heard on the radio today not sure who was making the comment yet I had to agree that they said no prime minster would ever jeopardise the country for their own gains and all this fear factor is just hot air.

I think they are under estimating politicians love of power. The good of the country always comes second. This referendum only happened because of the General Election the the threat UKIP to Dave's chances of remaining PM. The promise of a referendum was the only way to retain enough Tory support to win the election. Dealing with the consequences and resultant damage to the country are minor details.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Damien

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ebate-election

The Tories are moving against Cameron and may even be willing to prove another General Election to get this. This doesn't help the Leave campaign either as a week they wanted to spend talking about immigration may be derailed talking about the Tory Wars.

Not if they have any sense. Let the Tories fight among themselves and get on with the Leave Campaign. Plenty time after June 23rd to worry about that lot.

Erm, a lot of the Tories who are involved in the squabbles/infighting are leading lights in the Leave campaign - it's not either/or...

What justification would the Tories give to the wider electorate for deposing their leader, and the PM, a year after a General Election which they won? Granted we don't elect the PM directly but let's not kid ourselves that it isn't a significant factor in how people vote. A year or two before an election is typical for a Government changing their leader but 4 years out from an election?

So if Remain wins the referendum they are going to go to the public and say they removed the PM that won the General Election because the majority of people voted with his side on the referendum? It's insane.

---------- Post added at 09:39 ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 ----------

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Not if they have any sense. Let the Tories fight among themselves and get on with the Leave Campaign. Plenty time after June 23rd to worry about that lot.

There are only two people left ready to lead the charge:

Spoiler: