[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

Originally Posted by dave6x

Surprisingly many people I have spoken to covering a wide age range are all saying the same, that they are sick to death of scaremongering extreme forecasts based on dodgy statistics coming from the Remain campaign and thus are likely to vote leave because they would rather we were in charge of our own destiny as a nation than trust those who are telling us lies which even the all party Treasury Select Committee are questioning!

Actually, they are condemning stats and statements from both sides of the argument...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36397732

Both sides in the EU referendum campaign have been accused of peddling "misleading" figures and "implausible assumptions" by a committee of MPs.

The Treasury Select Committee calls Vote Leave's claim that Brexit would save £350m a week "deeply problematic".

And it says Remain's claims families would be worse off by £4,300 a year if Britain quit the EU were "mistaken" and had "probably confused" voters.

It's amusing you are misquoting a committee that has asked both sides to stop making misleading statements...

Originally Posted by dave6x

Surprisingly many people I have spoken to covering a wide age range are all saying the same, that they are sick to death of scaremongering extreme forecasts based on dodgy statistics coming from the Remain campaign and thus are likely to vote leave because they would rather we were in charge of our own destiny as a nation than trust those who are telling us lies which even the all party Treasury Select Committee are questioning!

People said the same during the Scottish Referendum. So many people said that they were No voters but the negativity of the Better Together campaign had turned them into Yes voters and I never really believed it. I don't think people act rebellious on voters they think matter.

Baring any extraordinary event I think the die is already cast for the result and would have been early on. There isn't a lot of evidence that campaigns shift too many voters with many being decided before the campaigns begin. I was reading a book about how the Tories won the last election and for the most part the internal polling they had back in October '14 matched the result they got in May '15.

The theory is that although polling does fluctuate in the campaign it tends to revert back to what the voters probably would have done before those campaigns begun. That the fundamental concerns of voters will win out in the end irrespective of what happens otherwise.

[dave6x]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It's amusing you are misquoting a committee that has asked both sides to stop making misleading statements...

I wasn't actually misquoting anything, I was relaying the opinions of people I had spoken to who appear to be more negatively influenced by what is being said by the Remain campaign.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by MarkC1984

Photo of the ballot paper. If this breaches rules, please remove.

So the lower box for me

[techguyone]

Originally Posted by Sirius

So the lower box for me

And me.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I look at this way, we are getting embroiled in the saga of politicians telling us, vote Yes to stay in, oir vote to stay out.

This country sends Billions to the EUU, and yet we get less in return.
I spoke with a friend on Wednesday, he said he was voting to stay in the EU. As he most of his work through employing EU workers, and they are cheaper than employing the UK workforce.

And he does most of his work via the EU.

I stated that if we come out of EU, there will still be EU workers that are in the country already.

There is a major problem with the fact that there is a proud British workforce, who cannot get work. As EU workers are taking ANY job, as it pays more than there country

There must be Millions of migrants that are in this country, wether legal or Not. We must control our Borders.

We have to have a control, that says IF you don't have a job in the UK, you cannot come here.

I think Australia have the same policy.

We MUST control our OWN country, and not be dictated by the EU.

Wasn't it Brussels that told us, that we could not call a Marathon Bar, we had to change the name to Snicker bar ?

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

.

Wasn't it Brussels that told us, that we could not call a Marathon Bar, we had to change the name to Snicker bar ?

Wrong and may i suggest you learn how to use a search engine to look up your so called facts before you post them.

" Manufacturer Mars is to bring back the original name in a three-month trial.

It is the latest in a line of relaunches for retro brand names, coming just weeks after the same company announced plans to bring back another former British favourite, Opal Fruits.

Marathon was renamed Snickers in 1990, after Mars decided to scrap the British brand and bring it into line with its global operation. For a period the wrapper of the bar carried both names, before Marathon was removed. The move made the bar something of a cultural reference point.

But the name has now been re-registered as a UK trademark.

Snickers is the best-selling chocolate bar of all time and has annual global sales of £1 billion. It was first created by Mars in 1930 and is believed to have been named in memory of a horse belonging to the owners. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...thon-bars.html

[Jimmy-J]

I'm out! Everywhere I look all I hear is out, out, out... But I know what the outcome will be, we'll remain.

http://www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by dave6x

Surprisingly many people I have spoken to covering a wide age range are all saying the same, that they are sick to death of scaremongering extreme forecasts based on dodgy statistics coming from the Remain campaign and thus are likely to vote leave because they would rather we were in charge of our own destiny as a nation than trust those who are telling us lies which even the all party Treasury Select Committee are questioning!

Cool. Let's hope it leads to Brexit.

---------- Post added at 07:02 ---------- Previous post was at 06:56 ----------

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I look at this way, we are getting embroiled in the saga of politicians telling us, vote Yes to stay in, oir vote to stay out.

This country sends Billions to the EUU, and yet we get less in return.
I spoke with a friend on Wednesday, he said he was voting to stay in the EU. As he most of his work through employing EU workers, and they are cheaper than employing the UK workforce.

And he does most of his work via the EU.

I stated that if we come out of EU, there will still be EU workers that are in the country already.

There is a major problem with the fact that there is a proud British workforce, who cannot get work. As EU workers are taking ANY job, as it pays more than there country

There must be Millions of migrants that are in this country, wether legal or Not. We must control our Borders.

We have to have a control, that says IF you don't have a job in the UK, you cannot come here.

I think Australia have the same policy.

We MUST control our OWN country, and not be dictated by the EU.

Wasn't it Brussels that told us, that we could not call a Marathon Bar, we had to change the name to Snicker bar ?

And yet Remain say they are not taking our jobs. I think this proves they are.

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Wasn't it Brussels that told us, that we could not call a Marathon Bar, we had to change the name to Snicker bar ?

Originally Posted by Sirius

Wrong and may i suggest you learn how to use a search engine to look up your so called facts before you post them.

Why the vitriol? Arthur didn't call them facts; that's why he put the question mark there.

Originally Posted by Big Brian

And yet Remain say they are not taking our jobs. I think this proves they are.

Your using one of Arthurs posts as proof

As it happens i have never held with the theory that we are losing our jobs to foreign workers .I do accept though that mass immigration makes it harder and that it is easier to operate on the black labour market .What we have in this country is a situation where the benefits of being unemployed are much greater than taking low paid or seasonal jobs ,mainly because of our generous benefit system. Mass immigration tends to depress wage levels as well but i do not accept that immigrants are stealing our jobs .

---------- Post added at 08:23 ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 ----------

Originally Posted by passingbat

Why the vitriol? Arthur didn't call them facts; that's why he put the question mark there.

Because some idiot will believe that Brussels was actually responsible for losing the Marathon bar and vote accordingly ,i would rather such an important vote be based on facts not the ramblings of Arthur .

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by martyh

Your using one of Arthurs posts as proof

As it happens i have never held with the theory that we are losing our jobs to foreign workers .I do accept though that mass immigration makes it harder and that it is easier to operate on the black labour market .What we have in this country is a situation where the benefits of being unemployed are much greater than taking low paid or seasonal jobs ,mainly because of our generous benefit system. Mass immigration tends to depress wage levels as well but i do not accept that immigrants are stealing our jobs .

I don't know if you watch the News BBC in the mornings but Stef McGovern has been going round business' trying to get a feel for how they feel about the EU. In one case they admitted employing EU workers as they are cheaper. If that's not taking our jobs I don't know what is. If you were an employer, and I don't know you might be, would you not take someone on who will work cheaper if they had the skills you required?

I agree on that point. Mass immigration does depress wages.

You talk of low paid jobs and our generous benefits system and that's true. When I was working I did 16 hours a week and could take home more than the full time workers. But my question is: Why then are the fruit pickers, tattie houkers, etc. all foreign. Why do the farmers not employ our people to do that instead of importing seasonal workers? My answer is that they don't qualify for these generous benefits as we would. That is just one example. So do you still think they are not taking jobs?

Originally Posted by Big Brian

I don't know if you watch the News BBC in the mornings but Stef McGovern has been going round business' trying to get a feel for how they feel about the EU. In one case they admitted employing EU workers as they are cheaper. If that's not taking our jobs I don't know what is.

Yes i do watch the news ,chiefly in the morning before i go to work and have been following Stefs travels. The example you give doesn't show that our jobs are being taken by foreign workers at all ,it shows that the wage level has been depressed by the availability of menial workers .The job would still be available to indigenous workers and it would still have to pay the living wage ,anything else would be illegal .

Why then are the fruit pickers, tattie houkers, etc. all foreign. Why do the farmers not employ our people to do that instead of importing seasonal workers?

Farmers use seasonal workers who are able to move around and don't mind the temporary nature of the job ,British born workers tend to want permanent jobs with a career path to follow .All that happens in the farming sector (and most likely anywhere else) is that the labour shortage is filled by available workers ,usually foreign born workers because they meet the criteria needed by the employer.The same job is still there for indigenous workers ,they just don't want it .

In my opinion it is false to claim that our jobs have been stolen by foreign workers ,what has happened is that the labour market has become more competitive and British workers have failed to compete .Having said that ,mass immigration has had a detrimental effect because of the increased competition so to balance out the effect we need to stop the immigration by leaving the EU and make claiming benefits hard and unrewarding so that we encourage people to take up the seasonal and low paid work

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by martyh

Yes i do watch the news ,chiefly in the morning before i go to work and have been following Stefs travels. The example you give doesn't show that our jobs are being taken by foreign workers at all ,it shows that the wage level has been depressed by the availability of menial workers .The job would still be available to indigenous workers and it would still have to pay the living wage ,anything else would be illegal .



Farmers use seasonal workers who are able to move around and don't mind the temporary nature of the job ,British born workers tend to want permanent jobs with a career path to follow .All that happens in the farming sector (and most likely anywhere else) is that the labour shortage is filled by available workers ,usually foreign born workers because they meet the criteria needed by the employer.The same job is still there for indigenous workers ,they just don't want it .

In my opinion it is false to claim that our jobs have been stolen by foreign workers ,what has happened is that the labour market has become more competitive and British workers have failed to compete .Having said that ,mass immigration has had a detrimental effect because of the increased competition so to balance out the effect we need to stop the immigration by leaving the EU and make claiming benefits hard and unrewarding so that we encourage people to take up the seasonal and low paid work

I agree. I used to love going in the fields but my point is you can't get those jobs now for migrants. I'd hardly call it menial as it can be backbreaking work at times but these days it's easier because of the way things are grown.

Originally Posted by Big Brian

I agree. I used to love going in the fields but my point is you can't get those jobs now for migrants. I'd hardly call it menial as it can be backbreaking work at times but these days it's easier because of the way things are grown.

Farming is a good example to use because it shows how much we depend on foreign workers in certain industries,there is actually a whole industry set up to supply farm workers from across the EU ,one such company here and should we leave the EU we will still need those workers as we always have
Here's another link giving a good perspective of how the farming industry relies on migrant workers

http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/analysis-f...eft-the-eu.htm