UK loses faith

[tweetiepooh]

I think I'd agree that "religion" is on the wane in the sense that membership for the sake of membership is dropping. But faith is growing as evidenced by the increase in attendance at, what I describe, "alive churches". (Same seems true for other faiths, the simplistic believe what parents did is dying as followers look for more.)

I know that other Christians on here would also not describe their faith as religion but as relationship. It's more about being in relationship with God (through Jesus) than attending services or following rules.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Nope, I don't understand your point. Education is not restricted to just Western Europe. Can you elaborate?

I can.

You suggested an inverse correlation between education and religious belief. I suggested you are wrong, because the West is the only place religious belief is waning, while it is not the only place with access to unversal education.

In response, I offer again the explanation I posted earlier. It is wealth that depresses religious belief, because having a comfortable life tends to lessen an individual's imperative to wonder what it's all about, compared to someone for whom making a living is more of a struggle.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

I can.

You suggested an inverse correlation between education and religious belief. I suggested you are wrong, because the West is the only place religious belief is waning, while it is not the only place with access to unversal education.

In response, I offer again the explanation I posted earlier. It is wealth that depresses religious belief, because having a comfortable life tends to lessen an individual's imperative to wonder what it's all about, compared to someone for whom making a living is more of a struggle.

I don't believe it is as simplistic as you present. There are many reasons why, in various parts of the world, religious beliefs change over time. Education certainly feeds into the process as does, as you say, wealth.

[Gary L]

So we got Education and Wealth.
sounds like politics again.

Can we add Common Sense?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Gary L

So we got Education and Wealth.
sounds like politics again.

Can we add Common Sense?

Gary, you are talking Common Sense?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Gary, you are talking Common Sense?

As I always do

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

I think I'd agree that "religion" is on the wane in the sense that membership for the sake of membership is dropping. But faith is growing as evidenced by the increase in attendance at, what I describe, "alive churches".

I know that other Christians on here would also not describe their faith as religion but as relationship. It's more about being in relationship with God (through Jesus) than attending services or following rules.

Absolutely. And the churches that are growing are the ones who believe that the whole of the Bible is the Divinely Inspired Word of God and the attendees have a personal relationship with Jesus.

The churches that are declining are those who are fudging the Word to appease political correctness. They are not preaching the true Gospel and not teaching the Word of God

It's strange, that in the days when many people are into 'supernatural spirituality', most are ignoring the most supernatural book in the world, the Bible. They relegate it to a history book, when in reality very much alive and active today.

This seems pretty relevant today:

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people

2 Timothy 3 1-5 New International Version (NIV)

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Gary L

So we got Education and Wealth.
sounds like politics again.

Can we add Common Sense?

Absolutely, things like turn the other cheek, love your neighbour etc make no sense whatsoever

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Chris

So far as Christianity goes, evangelical denominations are growing

Is that because we are getting more black Africans over here?

---------- Post added at 21:32 ---------- Previous post was at 21:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

In response, I offer again the explanation I posted earlier. It is wealth that depresses religious belief, because having a comfortable life tends to lessen an individual's imperative to wonder what it's all about, compared to someone for whom making a living is more of a struggle.

Is there a correlation between wealth and educational level?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Nope, I don't understand your point. Education is not restricted to just Western Europe. Can you elaborate?

I think I'm getting the point you're trying to suggest but I can't say I see the validity - for example although he doesn't post here much these days forum member Salu is a doctor and a Christian. Two of the solicitors - one has just qualified as an HHJ judge - at the company I work for are Christians, both belonging to a 'happy-clappy' church around here.

From my own experiences of Christians education levels vary from one end of the scale to the other just they do with all the atheists/humanists I know of.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Russ

I think I'm getting the point you're trying to suggest but I can't say I see the validity - for example although he doesn't post here much these days forum member Salu is a doctor and a Christian. Two of the solicitors - one has just qualified as an HHJ judge - at the company I work for are Christians, both belonging to a 'happy-clappy' church around here.

From my own experiences of Christians education levels vary from one end of the scale to the other just they do with all the atheists/humanists I know of.

I was discussing the macro level not individual experiences. Over the centuries, education esp. in relation to the ability to explain the Universe and how we, Homo Sapiens, could have evolved has led to some people leaving a faith-based belief system to one that can explained without a god or god-like entity being involved.

This is one, and only one, of the explanations into the OP's original premise of a "loss of faith" ..

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I am a Christian, and l believe that you don't have to go to a church to pray. I have prayed sometimes for help in my own house.

It has helped me a lot. But, l don't talk about it at work, or with friends in case it offends people. As sadly in this world, you start talking about religion. Some people get really funny about it.

I had a mate who tried to brainwash me into getting into a Free Religious church, who preached a different Bible.

To me you have One God, and one Jesus Christ.

[tweetiepooh]

It is amazing really that church groups that have a no compromise message with the Bible and challenge culture are growing where as those that try to fit with the culture are dying.

What it comes down to is people hate hypocracy more than they hate faith.

[passingbat]

I think it's relevant that this current topic also impacts on the other big current topic of the day; the EU Referendum.

From a secular perspective, my decision for Brexit is easy. In my view, each country should have complete control over Laws, Taxes and borders. And the government should be completely answerable, via elections to the British people, and no one else.

But as a Christian, knowing that the Bible's content is almost one third prophecy; some fulfilled, and some yet to be fulfilled, and believing that the Bible is alive and relevant to what is happening in the world today, I need a Biblical perspective as well.

For anyone who may be interested, this Youtube video, gives such a view.

The Rape of Europe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66uCnNwLJtM

It was made in 2002, so political leaders have changed, but the spiritual forces behind the EU have not.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Ephesians 6 v12 New International Version (NIV)

The video contains all three parts.

[tweetiepooh]

I'd say that for anyone whose "faith" is real that will colour and drive other decisions they make and their world view. This would apply to secular/humanist belief too. Problems then occur when any particular position tries to deny validity to any other position. It is also true that all such positions wants to convince others to that position.

Problems arise when there is attempted to separate spiritual from secular. This effectively means that only the "faith" position of no faith is allowed outside of "spiritual matters" and really is a nonsense anyway as already mentioned faith drives all parts of a believers life. I do understand the desire not have any particular faith dominating to the exclusion of all others but that should also apply to a secular position.