[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[denphone]

We are still undecided in our household and are still separating the wheat from the chaff in terms of what to believe and not what to believe but whatever way we decide we will certainly be glad when its all over that's for sure.

[techguyone]

I don't really get why anyone much over the age of 40 needs to be convinced of anything.

You've been around the planet long enough to make your own mind up, due to that thing us older folk call 'experience'
It counts for a lot you know, We need as a nation to stop being so sheeplike and vote/decide on things based upon what we've experienced in our lifetimes.
This will be far more pertinent than anything that one BS politician after another says in a really short timeframe by comparison.

No one here should be agonising about anything. Make up your own mind, based on your experience and vote accordingly - however that may be. That's between you and your conscience.

Just please please spare me the 'I haven't made my mind up yet' spiel, no one here is 12, so lets all be a bit grown up.

[Osem]

Project Fear UK, isn't just about the UK it's about sending a very stern message to anyone else in Europe who might dare to challenge Brussels. If they can beat down, with threats, the world's 5th largest economy and the EU's second largest contributor they'll truly feel they're untouchable and I'd fully expect them to take the opportunity to prevent any further challenges to their supremacy.

What they're clearly not going to do is sit back, take stock, learn some important lessons and reform so bear that in mind if you're considering more of the same. It won't be more of the same it'll more of worse!

[Gary L]

Let's fix Britain. it's what The Great British people want.

Vote Out!

and it's good news to hear that Dave is leaving.
him leaving and us leaving is what Britain needs.

Originally Posted by denphone

We are still undecided in our household and are still separating the wheat from the chaff in terms of what to believe and not what to believe but whatever way we decide we will certainly be glad when its all over that's for sure.

Get Private Eye..at the present they are the only media that are actually pointing out what BOTH sides have got wrong..and right.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by techguyone

I don't really get why anyone much over the age of 40 needs to be convinced of anything.

You've been around the planet long enough to make your own mind up, due to that thing us older folk call 'experience'
It counts for a lot you know, We need as a nation to stop being so sheeplike and vote/decide on things based upon what we've experienced in our lifetimes.
This will be far more pertinent than anything that one BS politician after another says in a really short timeframe by comparison.

No one here should be agonising about anything. Make up your own mind, based on your experience and vote accordingly - however that may be. That's between you and your conscience.

Just please please spare me the 'I haven't made my mind up yet' spiel, no one here is 12, so lets all be a bit grown up.

Indeed it's simple for anyone over 40. Vote Leave.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Get Private Eye..at the present they are the only media that are actually pointing out what BOTH sides have got wrong..and right.

Yes l will certainly consider that so thanks for that heads up Maggy.

[tweetiepooh]

Still not heard a lot about why I SHOULD vote for one side, just lots about why I SHOULDN'T vote the other way.

Wouldn't make too much difference. I would need a really, really strong reason to stay.

[Gavin78]

Originally Posted by Osem

Project Fear UK, isn't just about the UK it's about sending a very stern message to anyone else in Europe who might dare to challenge Brussels. If they can beat down, with threats, the world's 5th largest economy and the EU's second largest contributor they'll truly feel they're untouchable and I'd fully expect them to take the opportunity to prevent any further challenges to their supremacy.

What they're clearly not going to do is sit back, take stock, learn some important lessons and reform so bear that in mind if you're considering more of the same. It won't be more of the same it'll more of worse!

Totally agree and I think matters will be much worse for the UK from an EU point of view after this referendum I certainly don't see us having much swing in Europe if we decide to stay

[Osem]

I haven't heard anything conciliatory emanating from the EU, just threats (veiled or otherwise) about 'what'll happen if...' I don't think true 'friends' of the UK would want to go down that route even if they strongly disagreed with our concerns about the EU's future and desire to leave. They seem to be treating us rather like a child wanting to leave home by warning us that, rather than making things work to the mutual good, they'll cut us off and make life more difficult. Nice...

If any of the other big nations had decided to vote on leaving the EU before us, does anyone think the UK would have reacted in a similarly hostile fashion in order to influence their decison? Is that a big difference between 'us and them'?

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Still not heard a lot about why I SHOULD vote for one side, just lots about why I SHOULDN'T vote the other way.

Wouldn't make too much difference. I would need a really, really strong reason to stay.

I wish I could help. I'm in my 60s and am going on experience which is why I'm voting out as I think and hope the rest of my generation will. If you're under 40, you've nothing to compare the EU with as we have.

Remember that the EU we are in isn't what those who voted to remain in 1975 voted for. Then it was a Common Market - a trade zone only but it has become more of a Political Union as the decades have passed. I voted to leave in 1975 because I knew where it would lead and have the satisfaction of saying I told you so. It doesn't take a genius to work out the next stage, total integration. Despite Britain opting out of this and that, there will come a time where there won't be a choice - they either join the lot or leave. So why not leave now?

Remember too that all the economic arguments coming out are worse case scenarios, they are not Gospel. Those making these forecasts have more to gain by staying in than coming out because the EU is a rich mans' club. Don't get me wrong, I am not naïve enough to think things will be a bed of roses if we leave. There will be a short period of economic instability where trade deals are worked out. Some may continue as they are, I don't know but I do know that the EU need us more than we need them and they will be reluctant to put obstacles in our way.

On defence: The EU want a European Army to go along with their closer integration police. This they have admitted to but it's no secret they want one country Called Europe. You can find information on the net that they have wanted this since the early 50s. If you think that's the way to go then fair enough it may sway you towards staying.

It would take the whole forum if I carry on but hope this helps. These are facts about the closer integration and European army and can be found on the net.

[Gavin78]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

On defence: The EU want a European Army to go along with their closer integration police. This they have admitted to but it's no secret they want one country Called Europe. You can find information on the net that they have wanted this since the early 50s. If you think that's the way to go then fair enough it may sway you towards staying.

It would take the whole forum if I carry on but hope this helps. These are facts about the closer integration and European army and can be found on the net.

Judge Dredd coming soon

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Indeed it's simple for anyone over 40. Vote Leave.

Sorry chief, 45 and I'm voting IN

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Sorry chief, 45 and I'm voting IN

you were only a toddler then so let you off. you come under same as those under 40. Let's say those under 50 then?

[Gavin78]

I'm 38 and voting out