[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Gavin78]

The EU has one goal and this is one nation ruled by a president/prime minister that is the way they want it to go.

I've read a couple of articles about pensions to those coming over here working age or not. not sure how true it is?

Please let's not buy into the stupidity on here and question\devalue anyone's choice don't we have enough of the westminster\brussels village idiots doing that. This referendum is about what each and every citizen of the UK believes and how they feel the best interests of the UK are served in future, we don't all have to have the same belief but we must be able to respect all those who have a view. I have mine and the right to express it just as everyone else does and forums might be the only place where a civilised debate can be had so let's just debate and leave the rest out of it.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Please let's not buy into the stupidity on here and question\devalue anyone's choice don't we have enough of the westminster\brussels village idiots doing that. This referendum is about what each and every citizen of the UK believes and how they feel the best interests of the UK are served in future, we don't all have to have the same belief but we must be able to respect all those who have a view. I have mine and the right to express it just as everyone else does and forums might be the only place where a civilised debate can be had so let's just debate and leave the rest out of it.

[RichardCoulter]

Is the PM actually obliged to take us out in the event of a result in favour of us leaving?

If not and it's a very close vote to leave the EU he may say that it was so close that it's better to stay in and ask for more concessions now that the people have spoken. Maybe this would lead to a second vote afterwards??

The same argument that he needs more concessions could be made in the event of a close vote to stay in ie the electorate voted to stay in, but only just, so he has to appease them.

Either way I think that it will be a close vote

I think Cameron is bound by the referendum regardless of how close it is and if he were to pull any sort of stunt I think the consequences would be significant. As much as I hope for a clear victory either way I do think it will be very close within the so called margin of error and close enough so that whatever side loses there will be calls for a second vote. I'm not sure the UK is doing well with one vote I don't want to think about the damage another would do.

A new week and new scare mongering from the remain side it's getting very tedious and predictable and given how fantastic the EU is apparently why can't any of these positives be pushed by remain why is it always doom and gloom which is clearly not realistic.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Damien

How are they going to get into Britain easier? We still check whose coming in. If they choose to not leave that would be the same either way and since they're not an EU member they face the same checks as they otherwise would or any other nation would.

Indeed. However, they could invade the jungle and overrun it. How would the Authorities cope with 5 million Turks. No one could stop them if they are allowed free movement in the Schengen area.

---------- Post added at 06:34 ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 ----------

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Is the PM actually obliged to take us out in the event of a result in favour of us leaving?

If not and it's a very close vote to leave the EU he may say that it was so close that it's better to stay in and ask for more concessions now that the people have spoken. Maybe this would lead to a second vote afterwards??

The same argument that he needs more concessions could be made in the event of a close vote to stay in ie the electorate voted to stay in, but only just, so he has to appease them.

Either way I think that it will be a close vote

Technically no but can you imagine he backlash from the people if he went against the referendum? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refere...United_Kingdom

---------- Post added at 06:44 ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

A new week and new scare mongering from the remain side it's getting very tedious and predictable and given how fantastic the EU is apparently why can't any of these positives be pushed by remain why is it always doom and gloom which is clearly not realistic.

Yes. First the BoE Governor tells us there would be a technical recession where growth would be negative for 2 quarters if we leave the EU. Today on BBC News Cameron is saying we will be in a proper recession for at least a year. Which of them is right? If they can't agree on that then where does the truth actually lie?

TBH the forecasts coming from the Treasure since 2010 have not been exactly right. Remember they also predicted doom and gloom if we didn't join the Euro - Hell they got that wrong didn't they?

[Osem]

It's odd how every morning I wake to hear yet another fear story from HMG via the BBC. This time the headline is a year long recession which will ensue if we dare to leave.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36355564

As regards Turkey, visa less travel into the EU will by defininition make things easier for Turks to come to the EU. These will include those seeking to work (illegally) or whatever for whom there'll be one less very sizeable hurdle to jump. Thanks to Schengen, once these people are inside the EU, what means is there to find and remove them or stop them eventually winding up here in the backs of lorries claiming asylum pretending to be Afghans, persecuted Kurds, or whatever? The official right to live, work or whatever isn't the only issue at stake here and I'd have thought the last thing Europe needs is another wave of uncontrolled migration. That, however, is just common sense and as we know the EU has never got around to a directive on that...

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Indeed. However, they could invade the jungle and overrun it. How would the Authorities cope with 5 million Turks. No one could stop them if they are allowed free movement in the Schengen area.

---------- Post added at 06:34 ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 ----------



Technically no but can you imagine he backlash from the people if he went against the referendum? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refere...United_Kingdom

---------- Post added at 06:44 ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 ----------



Yes. First the BoE Governor tells us there would be a technical recession where growth would be negative for 2 quarters if we leave the EU. Today on BBC News Cameron is saying we will be in a proper recession for at least a year. Which of them is right? If they can't agree on that then where does the truth actually lie?

TBH the forecasts coming from the Treasure since 2010 have not been exactly right. Remember they also predictebd doom and gloom if we didn't join the Euro - Hell they got that wrong didn't they?

You're making stuff up now..

The Treasury information in 2003 supported Brown's decision not to join the Euro, and confirmed this in 2007.

[jonbxx]

On the whole visa entry thing, I thought I would have a quick look. There are 56 countries outside of the EU, EEA and British Protectorates whose citizens can enter the country without a visa. See here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_p...United_Kingdom

In return, UK citizens have the right to enter 157 countries without a visa (or can get a visa on entry) See here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_r...itish_citizens

[tweetiepooh]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

A new week and new scare mongering from the remain side it's getting very tedious and predictable and given how fantastic the EU is apparently why can't any of these positives be pushed by remain why is it always doom and gloom which is clearly not realistic.

Absolutely spot on.

Come on to both sides, give me reasons to support you as opposed to reasons not to support your opponents.

[arcimedes]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Absolutely spot on.

Come on to both sides, give me reasons to support you as opposed to reasons not to support your opponents.

I suspect that when you analyse it properly you will find very little difference in the positives on both sides. It is easier to pick arguments in your opponents case.

I suggest tossing a coin to determine which side you vote for.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You're making stuff up now..

The Treasury information in 2003 supported Brown's decision not to join the Euro, and confirmed thus in 2007.

And before that they didn't.

However, the others did and they were wrong.

---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:00 ----------

Originally Posted by arcimedes

I suspect that when you analyse it properly you will find very little difference in the positives on both sides. It is easier to pick arguments in your opponents case.

I suggest tossing a coin to determine which side you vote for.

My mind was made up in 1975 and I've seen no reason to change it in 2016 so will be voting Leave accordingly. In fact, it's worse than then especially economically and with the mass migration as well as the fact that what we are in now is not what we signed up to in 1975. Not long now till the Postal Papers arrive. Bring it on!

You want facts? The EU we are in now is NOT what we voted to remain in, in 1975

Originally Posted by Big Brian

And before that they didn't.

However, the others did and they were wrong.

---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:00 ----------



My mind was made up in 1975 and I've seen no reason to change it in 2016 so will be voting Leave accordingly. In fact, it's worse than then especially economically and with the mass migration as well as the fact that what we are in now is not what we signed up to in 1975. Not long now till the Postal Papers arrive. Bring it on!

You want facts? The EU we are in now is NOT what we voted to remain in, in 1975

Link, please?

Considering the Euro was only introduced in 1999, there wasn't much time before that...

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Damien

But Turkey are not joining the EU and we have a Veto if we did. Still it remains a possibility as does the economy entering a recession, let whereas the former is 'a reasonable warning' it the latter is scaremongering.

I wonder if there is a single thing Remain has said that hasn't been dismissed as scaremongering or talking Britain down by leave.

Do Turkey and the others know that they are not going to be able to join? As things stand, it isn't a question of whether they are allowed to join, but when.

There are ongoing accession negotiations. It seems the ONLY countries doing any vetoing are Cyprus(southern) and France.