NTL should switch to a digital only service!

Originally Posted by homealone

care to back up that statement - in my opinion, in every case the original analogue data will always be superior to the digital sample

The sampling rate for CDs is sufficiently high that it can encode all frequencies that are in the human range of hearing. If the frequency is too high to record to CD you couldn`t hear it in the first instance.

This is strictly true for pure, sine wave tones in isolation. Some people argue that the interaction of the non-audible tones with the audible ones makes the music sound "fuller", "richer" or any of those other subjective terms that get thrown around. I've never agreed with this sort of argument.

In a nut shell, if the digital sample, be that visual or audio, can encode what humans can perceive anyway you are going to be ok.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by garyparson

What part of the uk can't recieve Sky?

I didn't say that there were parts of the UK that couldn't receive Sky, I said properties. This can be because they are rented and the landlord won't allow a dish, listed properties, nowhere with line of sight of the satelliete, etc.

Originally Posted by garyparson

I was refering to the people who can get it but choose to live in the past.

It would have been clearer if you had actually said that. How is it living in the past if you have analogue and it gives you the channels that you want in the quality you want and at the price that you want? You walk into the house of someone who has analogue TV and see if you can tell if they are on analogue or digital without seeing the STB.

[jtwn]

Originally Posted by dr wadd

The sampling rate for CDs is sufficiently high that it can encode all frequencies that are in the human range of hearing. If the frequency is too high to record to CD you couldn`t hear it in the first instance.

This is strictly true for pure, sine wave tones in isolation. Some people argue that the interaction of the non-audible tones with the audible ones makes the music sound "fuller", "richer" or any of those other subjective terms that get thrown around. I've never agreed with this sort of argument.

In a nut shell, if the digital sample, be that visual or audio, can encode what humans can perceive anyway you are going to be ok.

I definately say there is a difference with SACDs even with my crap hearing, there is a large noticeable difference in the fidelty of the sound.

[weetomuncher]

I know some people in a digital area who are totally opposed to switching to digital purely because it costs a couple of pounds extra per month.

Surely this is just plain stingyness at its worst as the existing digital service is very cheap at the low end (only about £20 per month!) which isn't much more than the basic analogue package as far as I know.

I certainly couldn't cope without an EPG or interactive service now after four years of digital (not all of them interactive though!) but there are still a number of pretty big problems such as the frequent crashes, blackouts, interactive hangups and so on.

I feel sorry for NTL users who can't switch over to a digital service as my ideas would leave them with a blank screen (apart from analougue of course!) but I would still like NTL to switch over all customers in digital areas to the digital service as a precursor to a total shutdown of analogue.

Only a portion of the saved bandwith would bring the important missing channels from Sky to NTL (FX,VH2,TWC and possibly up to ten more) and the rest could be used to expand the EPG system and improve the bandwith on the major channels.

I think NTL should offer a higher spec STB for users on high level packages with further features such as a PVR hard disk and possibly a more customisable front end.

Basic (ie cheaper) technology could be used to lure miserly ex-analogue customers out of the woodwork as many of them are either unwilling or unable to use digital features as many of them seem to be older customers who don't seem to understand why digital is a little more expensive.

Sky didn't care about losing a few (mainly low level) customers by going digital only so why should NTL?

Weeto

[jtwn]

Well said.

I'm all for the 'move it or lose it' brigade. I can remember my time on analogue, that was years ago but there was no end to removing parts of it then, if that isn't an incentive then i don't know what is. ntl should give a push to analogue users, offer some deal to upgrade the box for free (unless they already do?) and lose the customers that don't.

Though, there was nothing reguarding the evolution or ending of analogue on ntl in that latest investors paper-thing.

[browneggsandham]

Originally Posted by weetomuncher

Only a portion of the saved bandwith would bring the important missing channels from Sky to NTL (FX,VH2,TWC and possibly up to ten more) and the rest could be used to expand the EPG system and improve the bandwith on the major channels.

Don't forget that until the analogue service is turned off nationwide, no bandwidth will be saved by turning off some areas.

Browneggsandham

[aliferste]

Another happy analogue user here. I am putting off updating until the last possible moment.

[garyparson]

As I said, get these neanderthals off our service and let's go forward with the system instead of being held back.

Originally Posted by aliferste

Another happy analogue user here. I am putting off updating until the last possible moment.

I'm most definitely with you there, aliferste - in fact from some of the comments in this thread I would keep analogue just to upset cro-magnon man

analogue works well & you get a SACM for broadband - which works well.

digital you get lock ups, freezing, pixellation & stb's are worse for broadband than SACM. Ooh but you get a red button - that doesn't work properly.

- I'm not convinced this is progress, myself & will stick with my choice, so long as I have one.

[Chrysalis]

alot of channels are digital only, so although analogue is cheaper you get less channels, you also have no interactivity. I wonder why NTL are refusing to upgrade everywhere to digital telewest have done it and are in a worst financial state.

[bigitup_j]

i believe areas which are analogue only are:
parts of southampton
parts of leicester
central london & westminster
milton keynes.

the southampton parts and the leicester parts could be reletively easy to upgrade, as no major digging up the road etc, would have to be done. please correct me if i'm wrong.
but, central london, westminster and milton keynes needs major works done, i think much of the cabling has to be re-laid. so lots of money would be needed. telewest don't have this situation; eurobell areas for example need new equipment, not new cabling - much cheaper.
plus, ntl are spending a lot of money on upgrading ex-videotron areas in london. so that'll have to be finished before ntl move onto something else.


i think ntl should start migrating analogue customers to digital (where possible), offering discounted prices and the like. also, i think ntl should remove all premium content on analogue (like sky movies, disney etc) to free up more capacity for the digital network.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by spiderplant

Only if you use the same compression technology (e.g. MPEG-2). New technologies are on their way which will get higher quality from the same bitrate (eg. MPEG-4 and WMV9).

And Microsoft are actively push STB builders to include WMV9 in STBs.

The problem is that for any new compression system to take off, Broadcasters would need to replace their encoding systems, and, seeing as they tend to encode the same signal for multiple platforms, the STBs on those platforms would need to support it. So, to carry on providing those channels, NTL would have to upgrade all STBs (which would cost millions, and probably generate very little financial return), SKY & Freeview would have millions of users who would have to be persuaded to buy new STBs.

Still, I do think that when specifying HDTV box Specs, they should use WMV9/MP4. Same with broadcasters when they specify encoder boxes.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by bigitup_j

i believe areas which are analogue only are:
parts of southampton
parts of leicester
central london & westminster
milton keynes.

the southampton parts and the leicester parts could be reletively easy to upgrade, as no major digging up the road etc, would have to be done. please correct me if i'm wrong.
but, central london, westminster and milton keynes needs major works done, i think much of the cabling has to be re-laid. so lots of money would be needed. telewest don't have this situation; eurobell areas for example need new equipment, not new cabling - much cheaper.
plus, ntl are spending a lot of money on upgrading ex-videotron areas in london. so that'll have to be finished before ntl move onto something else.


i think ntl should start migrating analogue customers to digital (where possible), offering discounted prices and the like. also, i think ntl should remove all premium content on analogue (like sky movies, disney etc) to free up more capacity for the digital network.

My daughter was told that it will probably be something like at least 2 years before the part of Leicester that she lives in will be upgraded. The work involves new fibre, new ducts, new drop cables, new and additional cabinets and the existing amps have to be removed, re-engineered and replaced.

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by garyparson

As I said, get these neanderthals off our service and let's go forward with the system instead of being held back.

that was a bit on the harsh side , how about ppl who cant afford the extra

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

My daughter was told that it will probably be something like at least 2 years before the part of Leicester that she lives in will be upgraded. The work involves new fibre, new ducts, new drop cables, new and additional cabinets and the existing amps have to be removed, re-engineered and replaced.

great