[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Taf]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

They indicate that the US is looking strongly to change regulation in Europe to lessen the protections on the environment, consumer rights and other positions that the EU affords to its citizens.

TTIP is hiding behind secret negotiations behind the smokescreen of the referendum in the UK. No so in the rest of the EU though, but media are in the most part ignoring it.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Obama's dream for the eu

Documents shed unprecedented light on controversial agreement, which includes provisions to allow US companies to help change European law and weaken consumer protections


They indicate that the US is looking strongly to change regulation in Europe to lessen the protections on the environment, consumer rights and other positions that the EU affords to its citizens.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7009896.html

No wonder he's so keen for us to stay in the EU?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Obama's dream for the eu

Documents shed unprecedented light on controversial agreement, which includes provisions to allow US companies to help change European law and weaken consumer protections


They indicate that the US is looking strongly to change regulation in Europe to lessen the protections on the environment, consumer rights and other positions that the EU affords to its citizens.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7009896.html

More here:
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...policy-making/

Good article from the FT on the economic case for Remain: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/417fb6c0-0...#axzz47X6uig4w

Any attempt to quantify the cost of Brexit is fraught with uncertainties. Of course, exports would not collapse and the City would not lose its dominance of financial services overnight. But there is a consensus among economists that Brexit would leave the UK significantly poorer in the long run. The Treasury’s central estimate of a 6 per cent hit to GDP by 2030 is credible.

Those who wish Britain to leave the EU may feel this is a price worth paying to regain sovereignty and control of borders. But they should be honest about the choices it will entail and clear-sighted about the risks.

[Osem]

Those who wish Britain to leave the EU may feel this is a price worth paying to regain sovereignty and control of borders. But they should be honest about the choices it will entail and clear-sighted about the risks.

If we carry on with migration at current levels, the price we're going to have to pay in terms of such things as our way of life is going to be huge and irreversible and for me that outweighs a GDP argument which seems to be based on population growth. It's already the equivalent of 3 cities the size of Cambridge every year.

I keep hearing people telling us that we need more people to pay for our growing elderly population but what none of them ever address is what happens when the migrants themselves grow old. Until they can address that with an iota of credibility their argument is ridiculous.

[papa smurf]

EU POWER GRAB: Terrifying Brussels plot to replace OUR police and judges with Euro stooges

BRUSSELS police could end up patrolling Britain’s streets and arresting our citizens under radical proposals put forward by Jean-Claude Juncker’s in-house think tank.


http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...ligence-agency

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

EU POWER GRAB: Terrifying Brussels plot to replace OUR police and judges with Euro stooges

BRUSSELS police could end up patrolling Britain’s streets and arresting our citizens under radical proposals put forward by Jean-Claude Juncker’s in-house think tank.


http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...ligence-agency

That's a frightening thought. If there is one reason to vote leave no matter what the cost then this is it.

[arcimedes]

Seeing as there aren't many police on our streets now this can only be an improvement.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by arcimedes

Seeing as there aren't many police on our streets now this can only be an improvement.

I'm assuming that's a joke? Do you really want foreign Police on our streets with their guns and the tactics we know they use against people? They beat up their locals. Just ask the Spaniards.

I emailed a copy of that article to my wife and she put it on Facebook. Should attract a few more Leave votes.

That is only the tip of the iceberg. They have plans to take more powers to Brussels meaning we have less say in what goes on.

I realise you're an avid remain voter but you should read some of the leave material. I read both and am convinced I'm making the right choice.

[arcimedes]

Considering the article comes from the "totally unbiased" Express then it must be right!

But everybody to his opinion, I have found that some people can be swayed very easily from one side to the other and back again.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Damien

Good article from the FT on the economic case for Remain: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/417fb6c0-0...#axzz47X6uig4w

How's the GDP figure per capita, though?

6% higher GDP isn't going to benefit us if it relies on 6.5% more people. GDP, while a convenient headline figure, is not directly relevant to our living standards.

Ask Sweden how it's working out for them.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Ask Sweden how it's working out for them.

The Swedes I talk with are gradually coming out of the funk they have suffered for many years. No-one dared talk about immigration, or the effect it is having on their country. But the tipping point has been passed for many, and public discussion and debate is starting to develop.

How long will it take for the fear to rise to the political classes?

And how long for them to do something about it?

Too long and too late is what many fear.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Taf

The Swedes I talk with are gradually coming out of the funk they have suffered for many years. No-one dared talk about immigration, or the effect it is having on their country. But the tipping point has been passed for many, and public discussion and debate is starting to develop.

How long will it take for the fear to rise to the political classes?

And how long for them to do something about it?

Too long and too late is what many fear.

That ought to be the EU's motto.

[papa smurf]

EU BORDER THREAT: Brussels to fine countries €250,000 for EVERY REFUGEE refused entry

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...-refused-entry

[Mr K]

These EU headlines are becoming ever more daft. The Express/Mail I expect made up cobblers; but even the Torygraph is lowering its journalistic standards. No one believes a word of it any longer; which makes a proper judgement of the pro/cons impossible and any rare genuine stories dismissed. We have the worst press in the Western world; there was less propaganda during WW2.