Tax havens exposed in huge law firm leak

Originally Posted by Mr K

Things like inheritance tax planning and overseas tax havens are irrelevant to 95% of people. The fact that these loopholes haven't been closed shows where the govts. priorities lie. Doing something wrong and something illegal are different things. Call me picky but I'd want the standard for PM to be a little higher than ' he's done nothing illegal'.

In law, "wrong" and "illegal" are exactly the same, and as the law is the only code upon which we all agree, what else is there? Morality is a very slippery thing unless we can all agree what is its source and definition. You're going to have to pin something legally dubious on the PM if you're hoping for a resignation.

The Cameron family's inheritance tax planning is precisely what every family in their position does. That may be only 5% of estates but we are still talking about something like 40,000 estates per year. It is a far, far larger number than that of the super-rich who spend a small fortune on accountants in order to save a large fortune in tax. And given the meteoric rise in property values we are also talking about plenty of people of relatively modest means.

These "loopholes" as you call them have been in the system for a very, very long time, so making insinuations about this government's "priorities" won't wash.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

this is a quote from dave in 2014
“I think we should be very clear — tax evasion is illegal, and for that you can be prosecuted, you can go to prison,” he said. “These very aggressive tax avoidance schemes, they are wrong, and we should really persuade people not to do them.”
he's not talking about himself obviously or his tax affairs

No he's not because he's just proven that he's not doing any of that despite how much some people wish he was

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by martyh

No he's not because he's just proven that he's not doing any of that despite how much some people wish he was

well lets not get too exited about his innocence/guilt just yet, i'm sure more evidence will be dug out in the coming days " the truth will out" .

April 2015: an Election Pledge to Crack Down

“Tackling tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance and tax planning is an important part of our long-term economic plan,” Mr. Cameron said ahead of his Conservative Party’s electoral victory.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

well lets not get too exited about his innocence/guilt just yet, i'm sure more evidence will be dug out in the coming days " the truth will out" .

If the evidence you speak of is anything like the deliberately misinterpreted and grasped at straws we've seen the last few days i wouldn't hold your breath.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by martyh

Are you serious ? plenty of the 95% of people you speak of profit from inheritance tax planning ,it's something that anyone who owns their house has to be aware of ,it is nothing like a tax haven

Why does inheritance tax exist? To raise money certainly. Also to encourage those with money to put it into the economy and make the next generation earn their way.

What has DC done to earn his millions. Nothing, he's inherited it, as we now know some of it from his Dads dodgy tax haven. No jobs before politics and a paid for Philosophy degree from Oxford; very useful that. Never mind his tax affairs how on earth did he become PM?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by martyh

If the evidence you speak of is anything like the deliberately misinterpreted and grasped at straws we've seen the last few days i wouldn't hold your breath.

i will wait and see what comes to light before i come to a conclusion ,i am sure this matter will be well scruitinised over the coming days ,if there are any skeletons in the cupboard they will be brought to light and if he is squeaky clean this will also be brought to light.

[Osem]

Just listening to George Galloway on the Sunday Politics asking people to believe that whilst his non-parliamentary earnings were handled via a company and subject to corporation tax (substantially lower than the relevant personal rate) he really believes people like him ought to pay more in tax than they do. Surprisingly, he didn't confirm whether his awful quilt about this unfairness extends to donating the difference in the tax he actually paid and that which he would have been required to cough up (had he chosen to run his affairs differently) in order to benefit of all those poor and needy he'd just cited. When pressed about what he actually paid on his earnings outside of parliament (c.£250k in 2014 apparently) his reply was "I paid a very, very, great deal/amount of money in tax exactly as I was required to do..." Sounds rather like Cameron then.

Just another rose tinted hypocrite amongst a very extensive list of those champagne socialists.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

this is a quote from dave in 2014
“I think we should be very clear — tax evasion is illegal, and for that you can be prosecuted, you can go to prison,” he said. “These very aggressive tax avoidance schemes, they are wrong, and we should really persuade people not to do them.”
he's not talking about himself obviously or his tax affairs

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i will wait and see what comes to light before i come to a conclusion ,i am sure this matter will be well scruitinised over the coming days ,if there are any skeletons in the cupboard they will be brought to light and if he is squeaky clean this will also be brought to light.

You appear to have already come to a conclusion...

Cameron paid tax on his dividends, he paid tax on his sale of the shares, and his mother gifted him money under existing HMRC rules, which my mother-in-law has done to her grand-children, like lots of others - could you please highlight which very aggressive tax avoidance schemes Cameron has undertaken?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You appear to have already come to a conclusion...

Cameron paid tax on his dividends, he paid tax on his sale of the shares, and his mother gifted him money under existing HMRC rules, which my mother-in-law has done to her grand-children, like lots of others - could you please highlight which very aggressive tax avoidance schemes Cameron has undertaken?

no i'm awaiting input [not selective tidbits]

i never said he had undertaken aggressive tax avoidance -i quoted the man himself
this is a quote from dave in 2014
“I think we should be very clear — tax evasion is illegal, and for that you can be prosecuted, you can go to prison,” he said. “These very aggressive tax avoidance schemes, they are wrong, and we should really persuade people not to do them.”
he obviously never mentioned fluffy tax avoidance .

Originally Posted by Mr K

Why does inheritance tax exist? To raise money certainly. Also to encourage those with money to put it into the economy and make the next generation earn their way.

What has DC done to earn his millions. Nothing, he's inherited it, as we now know some of it from his Dads dodgy tax haven. No jobs before politics and a paid for Philosophy degree from Oxford; very useful that. Never mind his tax affairs how on earth did he become PM?

So basically instead of backing up your assertions that Cameron is a tax dodger you've resorted to calling him a lazy thicko It must be very hard work hating everyone that's done better in life than you

---------- Post added at 13:39 ---------- Previous post was at 13:36 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

no i'm awaiting input [not selective tidbits]

i never said he had undertaken aggressive tax avoidance -i quoted the man himself
this is a quote from dave in 2014
“I think we should be very clear — tax evasion is illegal, and for that you can be prosecuted, you can go to prison,” he said. “These very aggressive tax avoidance schemes, they are wrong, and we should really persuade people not to do them.”
he obviously never mentioned fluffy tax avoidance .

The sound of your backpeddling is deafening

[Sirius]

So the SNP and Labour want tax returns and confirmation that the cabinet are not using tax havens, i hope the Shadow cabinet will do the same to prove they have nothing to hide ether?. I dont think the others will be willing to divulge there information however as in true Labour process they will stick to "what's yours is mine but what's mine is my own"

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by martyh

So basically instead of backing up your assertions that Cameron is a tax dodger you've resorted to calling him a lazy thicko It must be very hard work hating everyone that's done better in life than you

---------- Post added at 13:39 ---------- Previous post was at 13:36 ----------



The sound of your backpeddling is deafening

is that a real word ?

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

is that a real word ?

Someone who sells backs?

Martin Lewis, of the Moneysavingexpert website, just posted this on FB.

The Sunday Times front page is today implying Cameron's mother's £200,000 gift to him is an inheritance tax 'dodge' and 'avoidance'; yet I'm sure its own money section has often rightly recommended doing just that as legitimate tax planning. What next will we see "Cameron dodged £15,240 of saving tax by putting money in an ISA"?

So far in this debate I've been vocal on the fact we have a moral duty to pay our taxes - its the cost of living in a legitimate civil society. And offshore complex financial avoidance and dodgy hidden manipulative trusts should rightly be called avoidance and castigated

Yet lets call it avoidance when it is avoidance and not using government allowances to do things that we're supposed to do - even if you're prime minister. To try and grow this story by trying to darken the act of standard tax planning, isn't a good route,

The rules are plain you can give money from income, or give money more than 7 years before you die and there's no inheritence tax. Utilising that isn't dodgy.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Martin Lewis, of the Moneysavingexpert website, just posted this on FB.

is that the martin Lewis who advised locking into an energy tariffs before they went up- only they went down

i'm waiting until jamie oliver backs him .