[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

Originally Posted by Damien

The same seems to apply to leave. What are you voting for? The arguments on both sides are rather abstract compared to tangible issues like currency and passports. The question for most people will be "How will these effect me?".

I would argue the fear of the unknown was a powerful tool for the No vote in Scotland and that is the same here.

I don't agree - not to the same extent in any case.

There is no widely understood picture of exactly what the EU does for us, what the benefits are. There is only a vague sense of interfering Eurocrats.

I would argue that there is far less sense of unknown for the UK outside the EU than there was for Scotland outside the UK.

Originally Posted by Chris

I don't agree - not to the same extent in any case.

There is no widely understood picture of exactly what the EU does for us, what the benefits are. There is only a vague sense of interfering Eurocrats.

I would argue that there is far less sense of unknown for the UK outside the EU than there was for Scotland outside the UK.

I agree that the sense of known was greater for the Scottish Referendum. I also think there are less tangible things for the Remain to point at.

I would say though that, so far, the Brexit campaign haven't managed to generate anywhere near the passion and excitement the Yes campaign had. Presumably the idea of a sovereign Scottish nation was a lot more powerful than that of a UK free of European influence. The Yes campaign managed to create a vision where supporters that saw an Independent Scotland as whatever they wanted it to be whereas Brexit has a vision of the UK being largely the same but without interfering Eurocrats.

Maybe that means the vote will come down to a cost vs benefit judgement rather than anything else. So the In campaign will hammer, relentlessly, the risk factor because I don't believe people are annoyed enough at Europe to leave if they perceive that to be economically risky. The Leave campaign will attempt to convince people otherwise because all things being equal people would probably vote to leave.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Damien

This only proves the point though. There is a lack of tangible things to point too. I doubt 'freedom' is going to win over people who don't pay much attention to politics (which is a hell of a lot of people). Same with 'single market' or 'trade'.

That's why the Stay campaign is emphasising risk. If they want one thing to be drilled into every single voters head come voting then it's 'this is a bit of a risk!', even if they can't exactly articulate why.

I heard somewhere that the average person could be £25 - £500 better off by leaving the EU. Don't know how much truth there is in that but money talks. Even if someone thought they would be £25. better off I wonder would it entice them to vote Leave.

Originally Posted by Big Brian

I heard somewhere that the average person could be £25 - £500 better off by leaving the EU. Don't know how much truth there is in that but money talks. Even if someone thought they would be £25. better off I wonder would it entice them to vote Leave.

If people believed that leaving the EU would not cost them at all then they would probably vote to leave. The main attraction of the EU to Britain has always been the single market. Most people aren't enamored by the 'European ideal' and don't like the EU machinery. Hell, if I believed there was no economic risk I would vote to leave.

Originally Posted by Big Brian

I heard somewhere that the average person could be £25 - £500 better off by leaving the EU. Don't know how much truth there is in that but money talks. Even if someone thought they would be £25. better off I wonder would it entice them to vote Leave.

I heard somewhere that if we stay in the EU, there will be free BMWs and Audis for people - don't know how much truth there is in that but money talks. Even if there was a small chance of a free Audi or BMW, I wonder if it would enticed them to vote Stay.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

If people believed that leaving the EU would not cost them at all then they would probably vote to leave. The main attraction of the EU to Britain has always been the single market. Most people aren't enamored by the 'European ideal' and don't like the EU machinery. Hell, if I believed there was no economic risk I would vote to leave.

There's an economic risk to staying in. It's called Greece and the Euro.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I heard somewhere that if we stay in the EU, there will be free BMWs and Audis for people - don't know how much truth there is in that but money talks. Even if there was a small chance of a free Audi or BMW, I wonder if it would enticed them to vote Stay.

What a silly response. Beggars belief!

Originally Posted by Big Brian

What a silly response. Beggars belief!

It had as much basis in reality as yours...

Where did your hear yours - in the pub?

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It had as much basis in reality as yours...

Where did your hear yours - in the pub?

I heard that on the News on Sunday Morning. Where did yours come from?

Originally Posted by Big Brian

I heard that on the News on Sunday Morning. Where did yours come from?

I made it up, just like you did.

The figures you quoted were the amount of money that would sway voters, not the actual amount of money that Brits would be better off if we left...

http://www.theweek.co.uk/eu-referend...s-little-as-25

You stated

I heard somewhere that the average person could be £25 - £500 better off by leaving the EU.

When in reality, the story was

Britons heading to the polls in the EU referendum could be influenced by as little as £25, a new survey has revealed.

Polling conducted by YouGov for Philip Cowley, a professor of politics at Queen Mary University of London, showed that the balance of votes can be altered if Britons think they will be better off financially, with the amount varying between £500 and £25.

"If people think they will be better off out, then Leave wins. But if people think they'll be better off staying in the EU, then there's a majority for Remain," he writes in The Guardian.

So it could affect voting either way, not just for Brexit.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I made it up, just like you did.

The figures you quoted were the amount of money that would sway voters, not the actual amount of money that Brits would be better off if we left...

http://www.theweek.co.uk/eu-referend...s-little-as-25

You stated

When in reality, the story was

So it could affect voting either way, not just for Brexit.

Aye that's the one I heard. I know there is no actual money involved.

[Osem]

Q. When is a document not secure?

A. When it exists.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Osem

Q. When is a document not secure?

A. When it exists.

You know. Wonder what Cameron will do now his old man was a tax dodger?

---------- Post added at 12:54 ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 ----------

EU referendum: NHS short-changed to tune of £5.7bn over health tourism says Vote Leave

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referend...-leave-1553182

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Aye that's the one I heard. I know there is no actual money involved.

Yet you stated it like there was actual money involved

I heard somewhere that the average person could be £25 - £500 better off by leaving the EU. Don't know how much truth there is in that but money talks. Even if someone thought they would be £25. better off I wonder would it entice them to vote Leave.

Still at least we know how much truth there is in it now, none.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Yet you stated it like there was actual money involved



Still at least we know how much truth there is in it now, none.

Actually what I said was "I heard somewhere' and "could be £25 - £500" not that they would be.