[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[heero_yuy]

We seem to have a variant of Godwin's law* operating here at CF: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Thatcher approaches"—​​that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Thatcher.

I paraphrase.

*Godwin's law

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by techguyone

Shame, you lost a lot of credibility bringing up that old chestnut, the old girls dead, she was ousted from politics in 1990 that was 26 years ago! 26... move on jeez.

Don't bother trying to label me this or that, you'll most likely get it wrong.

I take it you don't live in the North of England then? Label you? You do a good enough job of that without me helping. Move on? She killed anything outside the home counties. It's why London and the rest have such a big gap - The North-South divide which despite what Cameron and Osbourne say about the Northern Power House is getting wider.

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Strangely enough we were messing about with computers in about 1978 and said, one day we'll be able to contact each other and see each other on these things. That also came to pass.

In 1978 we were already contacting each other with computers (well, the unit I was in with the RAF, GCHQ, NSA, et al were) - that wasn't the Internet...

[techguyone]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

I take it you don't live in the North of England then? Label you? You do a good enough job of that without me helping. Move on? She killed anything outside the home counties. It's why London and the rest have such a big gap - The North-South divide which despite what Cameron and Osbourne say about the Northern Power House is getting wider.

Irrelevant. In case you forgot, this is about the EU Referendum, you're way off the reservation, stick to the topic.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Hugh

In 1978 we were already contacting each other with computers (well, the unit I was in with the RAF, GCHQ, NSA, et al were) - that wasn't the Internet...

Intranet, yes. But I was meaning over a bigger distance.

---------- Post added at 18:38 ---------- Previous post was at 18:37 ----------

Originally Posted by techguyone

Irrelevant. In case you forgot, this is about the EU Referendum, you're way off the reservation, stick to the topic.

So you lose. A reaction I'd expect when you have no answer. I'm aware what the topic is and it is related in a way. She gave away a lot to the EU. She tried to reform it and failed.

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Intranet, yes. But I was meaning over a bigger distance.

---------- Post added at 18:38 ---------- Previous post was at 18:37 ----------



So you lose. A reaction I'd expect when you have no answer. I'm aware what the topic is and it is related in a way. She gave away a lot to the EU. She tried to reform it and failed.

Well, I was in Teufelsberg, West Berlin, GCHQ's at Cheltenham, England, and NSA was/is at Fort Meade, Maryland, US of A...

[techguyone]

I'm not here to 'win' anything, I'm here to see the debate about the EU Referendum (on this thread anyway) not listen to people, wibbling on about stuff from 1980whatever. I don't care about what happened then, I don't care about Northern Powerhouses, Or London, or the tooth fairy. Because they're all just noises off. I DO care about the EU Ref though, so do try and please keep up & stick to the topic. I'm not here to 'win' or 'lose' anything this isn't the playground, & I'm not at school, so grow up.

[heero_yuy]

An Opinium survey shows “Out” ahead on 43 per cent, with “Stay” on 39 per cent.

This is the biggest Brexit lead since David Cameron returned empty handed from Europe on February 18.

Worse for Mr Cameron, Brexit voters are determined to have their say on June 23.

EU fans — mostly the under-35s — are more likely to go to the pub.

Coupled with mounting anger over mass immigration and fears over the fate of the Euro, sentiment is clearly hardening against Brussels.

Trevor Kavanagh, commentary

EU_ref_s.jpg

The lack of turnout from younger people will be a problem for the In campaign. Maybe these numbers will shake them out of complacency.

[Osem]

I might disagree with their choice but anyone who's complacent about this needs to wake up.

The Remain campaign is lacking a lot of the tangible things that enabled the No campaign to thrive in Scotland (despite the furious spinning by the Yessers, who are still trying to claim they have demographics on their side).

Here in the UK the benefits of the fully integrated economy, borderless travel and commerce and a common currency managed for the needs of all are real. The benefits of EU membership ... well apart from a vague sense that togetherness is probably a good thing, what is there? We don't even have the common currency and the common border, not that either of those things is especially appealing right now.

In Scotland, voters of all ages were able to appreciate and make a deliberate choice to remain beneficiaries of these things. But in the EU, if you vote Remain, what exactly are you voting for?

Originally Posted by Chris

In Scotland, voters of all ages were able to appreciate and make a deliberate choice to remain beneficiaries of these things. But in the EU, if you vote Remain, what exactly are you voting for?

The same seems to apply to leave. What are you voting for? The arguments on both sides are rather abstract compared to tangible issues like currency and passports. The question for most people will be "How will these effect me?".

I would argue the fear of the unknown was a powerful tool for the No vote in Scotland and that is the same here.

[Osem]

This has to be right doesn't it?

Specific information about the number of EU migrants paying tax and claiming benefits in the UK will be published in the run-up to June's EU referendum.

The move to release data on the number of National Insurance numbers actively used by EU citizens follows pressure from Eurosceptic MPs and economists.

They have long argued official figures on inward migration from the EU vastly underestimate the true numbers.

Revenue and Customs said it would give a "fuller picture" of migration trends.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-35958689

Why would such data be collected then not revealed?

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Trevor Kavanagh, commentary

Attachment 26549

Music to my ears. I'll settle for that on June 23rd.

---------- Post added at 13:15 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

The same seems to apply to leave. What are you voting for? The arguments on both sides are rather abstract compared to tangible issues like currency and passports. The question for most people will be "How will these effect me?".

I would argue the fear of the unknown was a powerful tool for the No vote in Scotland and that is the same here.

A Leave vote is a vote for freedom. Freedom to make the choices that are best for the UK and not the EU. It's a vote for Sovereignty. It's a vote to stand on our own two feet. It's a vote for not having to cowtow to Brussels every time we want to make a decision that only effects the UK. It's a vote to decide who can and can't enter the UK. It's a vote to break free from the United States of Europe. It's a vote to make our own laws and have our own political correctness. Shall I continue or would other outers like to add to this?

Originally Posted by Big Brian

A Leave vote is a vote for freedom. Freedom to make the choices that are best for the UK and not the EU. It's a vote for Sovereignty. It's a vote to stand on our own two feet. It's a vote for not having to cowtow to Brussels every time we want to make a decision that only effects the UK. It's a vote to decide who can and can't enter the UK. It's a vote to break free from the United States of Europe. It's a vote to make our own laws and have our own political correctness. Shall I continue or would other outers like to add to this?

This only proves the point though. There is a lack of tangible things to point too. I doubt 'freedom' is going to win over people who don't pay much attention to politics (which is a hell of a lot of people). Same with 'single market' or 'trade'.

That's why the Stay campaign is emphasising risk. If they want one thing to be drilled into every single voters head come voting then it's 'this is a bit of a risk!', even if they can't exactly articulate why.