[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

Originally Posted by Mr K

I suspect most in the 'don't know' category, will choose 'no change' on polling day as the safe option. This is what happened in the GE and Scots referendum.

Bit lousy of the out campaign to try and use the Brussels attacks to their advantage.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35879670
Desperate politics which could backfire.

Why is it ? I don't know about anyone else but i think yesterday was the perfect example why we should get control of our borders back ,it's a bit late for home grown terrorists but allowing terrorists from outside the EU to wonder about freely with no border checks is just plain nuts

[Osem]

Originally Posted by martyh

Why is it ? I don't know about anyone else but i think yesterday was the perfect example why we should get control of our borders back ,it's a bit late for home grown terrorists but allowing terrorists from outside the EU to wonder about freely with no border checks is just plain nuts

Me too. It's not as though the problems inherent in having no border controls across most of the EU haven't been pointed out over the years is it. It's not like nobody had mentioned any of it until yesterday and the out campaign are now suddenly trying to use this awful tragedy to their advantage. Schengen was always an accident waiting to happen so maybe those who dreamt it up ought to look to themselves for answers.

Originally Posted by martyh

Why is it ? I don't know about anyone else but i think yesterday was the perfect example why we should get control of our borders back ,it's a bit late for home grown terrorists but allowing terrorists from outside the EU to wonder about freely with no border checks is just plain nuts

As has been previously pointed out, we are not in Schengen', so we have control of our borders - every time I've landed in the UK, I've had to show my passport.

In or Out of Europe we would still be affected by Europe's border policy (although Schengen seems to be dying). In that respect leaving wouldn't help us. There is an argument that if they were EU citizens then they could come here but it's worth noting that one of the smaller items on Cameron's 'deal' was the ability for the Home Office to block people on national security grounds, no idea how that'll be implemented though.

Originally Posted by Hugh

As has been previously pointed out, we are not in Schengen', so we have control of our borders - every time I've landed in the UK, I've had to show my passport.

However, we are obliged to grant free movement to anyone who rocks up at Dover or Heathrow with an EU passport ... Of the kind a lot of angry young middle eastern men currently claiming asylum in Germany will get, five years from now.

Originally Posted by Hugh

As has been previously pointed out, we are not in Schengen', so we have control of our borders - every time I've landed in the UK, I've had to show my passport.

But stopping someone with an EU passport from entering the UK is problematic at best and currently against their rights as an EU citizen.When we are out of the EU we will be able to stop whoever we like from entering without them crying foul to the EU

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Hugh

As has been previously pointed out, we are not in Schengen', so we have control of our borders - every time I've landed in the UK, I've had to show my passport.

to an extent we do, yes but not full control. We still have to allow EU citizens Access even if they do have to show a passport.

---------- Post added at 18:29 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

In or Out of Europe we would still be affected by Europe's border policy (although Schengen seems to be dying). In that respect leaving wouldn't help us. There is an argument that if they were EU citizens then they could come here but it's worth noting that one of the smaller items on Cameron's 'deal' was the ability for the Home Office to block people on national security grounds, no idea how that'll be implemented though.

It does make a big difference if we're out. We can really tighten up our borders and immigration then.

---------- Post added at 18:33 ---------- Previous post was at 18:29 ----------

The whole point of coming out of the EU was reinforced over the past few days. As Chris says, we are obliged to grant free movement to anyone with an EU Passport. Terrorists have EU passports too. By leaving the EU, we won't be obliged to let them in.

I'm pretty sure if we know they are terrorists, we would arrest them, EU passports or not.

And if we don't know they are terrorists, will we be stopping everyone with an EU passport from entering the UK?

There is a chance that we may have to accept freedom of movement to reach a certain level of access to the single market....

Originally Posted by Damien

There is a chance that we may have to accept freedom of movement to reach a certain level of access to the single market....

Freedom of movement is a dead duck imo ,the influx of terrorists into the EU will ensure that other countries scrap the idea of border less movement ,as they have already started to do

Originally Posted by martyh

Freedom of movement is a dead duck imo ,the influx of terrorists into the EU will ensure that other countries scrap the idea of border less movement ,as they have already started to do

I mean freedom of movement to work, travel and so on without visas. Freedom of movement doesn't have to mean borderless travel. Might be a bit difficult for those who work/live on either side of borders but that issue wasn't why freedom of movement was set-up.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Bit lousy of the out campaign to try and use the Brussels attacks to their advantage.

Not really. Fair points to be made regarding all this.

---------- Post added at 22:17 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------

In further news: Moody’s: Brexit Is ‘Manageable’… ‘Limited Implications’… Economic Impact ‘Small’

Originally Posted by Mr K

I suspect most in the 'don't know' category, will choose 'no change' on polling day as the safe option. This is what happened in the GE and Scots referendum.

Bit lousy of the out campaign to try and use the Brussels attacks to their advantage.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35879670
Desperate politics which could backfire.

Absolutely, and it's not as if the In campaign would do anything of the kind.

http://order-order.com/2016/03/23/bs...ssels-attacks/

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I'm pretty sure if we know they are terrorists, we would arrest them, EU passports or not.

And if we don't know they are terrorists, will we be stopping everyone with an EU passport from entering the UK?

that is a silly comment. It makes it harder for them to get in if we leave.

[Osem]

If we stay in the EU we'll be obliged to give free movement to anyone who's been given an EU passport. Even though getting out on its own isn't going to improve our order security* That'd include all sorts of people with dodgy backgrounds and even dodgier intentions. I really don't see how that undeniable fact improves our security.

*yet more lorry loads of migrants have just been found having entered the UK illegally

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/p...cle4720359.ece)

and it's not unusual:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35882558

Four Polish lorry drivers have been jailed for trying to smuggle 68 suspected illegal immigrants into the UK.

Two pregnant woman and 15 children were among those found in the backs of four lorries at Harwich in June 2015...

... Laura Kenyon, prosecuting, said the men were caught with 35 Afghan Sikhs, including 11 children, 22 Chinese adults, 10 Vietnamese, including four children, and a Russian woman...

I wonder how many European Schengen countries the latter were waived through on their way here...