[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

It's the same lie that the Lib-dems, remember them, used to peddle and the TV interviewers never picked them up on it. Presumably they were happy to perpetrate the lie.

Of Course. Are they not trying to manipulate a Remain vote while seeming impartial?

---------- Post added at 09:21 ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 ----------

100 DAYS UNTIL EU REFERENDUM: New poll puts UK on course for Brexit

BRITAIN is on course to quit the EU after a new poll revealed the UK public is ready to back Brexit with just 100 days to go until the historic in/out referendum.



By Greg Heffer, Political Reporter

PUBLISHED: 13:53, Tue, Mar 15, 2016 | UPDATED: 17:25, Tue, Mar 15, 2016

In a huge boost for the Brexit campaign, a new ORB survey has signalled the Leave camp currently holds a seven-point lead over those wanting the UK to remain in the EU.

The poll, on behalf of the Daily Telegraph, shows the battle for Britain’s future is currently deadlocked, with Remain on 47 per and Leave on 48 per cent.

But, when the study is adjusted to take into account people’s likelihood to vote, the Brexit campaign would win by 52 per cent to 45 per cent.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...n-Project-Fear

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Of Course. Are they not trying to manipulate a Remain vote while seeming impartial?

Yes, the main news bulletins are balanced enough in content but story order is another thing. When it comes to current affairs programs then the bias kicks in. Possibly not editorially but many of the interviewers seem to go easy on stay whilst heavy on leave interviewees.

But, when the study is adjusted to take into account people’s likelihood to vote, the Brexit campaign would win by 52 per cent to 45 per cent.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...n-Project-Fear

No surprise there, the demographic most likely to vote are the older age group who remember the systematic lies that got us in in the first place and then the decades of lies about the common market when they knew all along it was an EU superstate that was in the making.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Yes, the main news bulletins are balanced enough in content but story order is another thing. When it comes to current affairs programs then the bias kicks in. Possibly not editorially but many of the interviewers seem to go easy on stay whilst heavy on leave interviewees.



No surprise there, the demographic most likely to vote are the older age group who remember the systematic lies that got us in in the first place and then the decades of lies about the common market when they knew all along it was an EU superstate that was in the making.

Correct. I was only 21 at the time of the last vote but had the sense to see what was coming. I've been political since I was a child and my father and I had some right ding-dongs over the years. Though my parents voted for the Common Market, I believe they regret that now and will be voting out. He's a died-in-the-wool Tory but I won't hold that against him.

The only poll that counts is the one in 99 days time and at this moment I can only see one verdict by the good people of the UK - OUT! though it's the younger generation we have to convince. they seem to think it's a good thing this EU. Off to watch the Budget soon though I don't know why as there is never anything in it for the likes of me. LOL!

[Gavin78]

I wonder if the budget was aimed at trying to get more people on side

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

I wonder if the budget was aimed at trying to get more people on side

if it was it failed with me.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Though my parents voted for the Common Market, I believe they regret that now and will be voting out.

The EEC went through a sort of de-metamorphosis and became the ugly EU so it's no surprise that those with good intentions in the 70's feel duped.

Young people especially need to decide whether they want to live in a democracy or a bureaucracy. Conceding the democratic system that has served this Country so well is the real leap into the dark.

[Osem]

Yes, nobody voted for what we have now and it is an indictment of previous governments that we have until now been deprived of a say on something as fundamental as this.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Kursk

The EEC went through a sort of de-metamorphosis and became the ugly EU so it's no surprise that those with good intentions in the 70's feel duped.

Young people especially need to decide whether they want to live in a democracy or a bureaucracy. Conceding the democratic system that has served this Country so well is the real leap into the dark.

Those with good intentions as you so delicately put it were warned by those of us who voted against that this was what would happen. They only have themselves to blame for not listening.

---------- Post added at 08:31 ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 ----------

Originally Posted by Gavin78

I wonder if the budget was aimed at trying to get more people on side

I believe it was but he failed massively just as he failed on all his targets and promises made at the past 2 elections. Again the rich get richer, this time at the expense of the disabled, while the rest of us suffer yet again with stealth taxes. In my opinion all he did was manipulate the figures to make it look as if he was still on target for 2020.

What really angered me was him using it as a political platform to put the Remain point across about being safer and more secure in a reformed EU. Has the EU actually been reformed? This was unfair to the Leave Campaign as we could not respond. Are the INNERS working to a script I wonder as they say word for word the same things?

I don't think it's any coincidence that Obama is visiting next month either. It's no secret how he feels about us remaining in the EU. Talk about bringing out the big guns. They must be worried about the possibility of losing the vote.

Originally Posted by Gavin78

I wonder if the budget was aimed at trying to get more people on side

It was - this had the look of a pre-election giveaway budget. Normally at this stage in the electoral cycle a chancellor would be doing really unpopular things while he could get away with it.

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by Osem

Yes, nobody voted for what we have now and it is an indictment of previous governments that we have until now been deprived of a say on something as fundamental as this.

But we did by returning a succession of pro-european parties in to government.

Cheers

Grim

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

But we did by returning a succession of pro-european parties in to government.

Cheers

Grim

Apart from the early eighteis we didn't have much of a choice as I recall after Labour became EU friendly.

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

But we did by returning a succession of pro-european parties in to government.

Cheers

Grim

No, we didn't - any more than Scotland voted for separation by electing the SNP, as the outcome of the 2014 referendum proved.

We elect a government with a broad manifesto. Nobody is in love with every line of that manifesto; it's just a matter of picking the one that's the best fit with your own views.

An EU referendum has not been a top priority until now. That's not to say it wouldn't have been welcomed, had it happened. In fact, with the state the EU is now in, I'd say the stars have aligned quite nicely.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

No, we didn't - any more than Scotland voted for separation by electing the SNP, as the outcome of the 2014 referendum proved.

We elect a government with a broad manifesto. Nobody is in love with every line of that manifesto; it's just a matter of picking the one that's the best fit with your own views.

An EU referendum has not been a top priority until now. That's not to say it wouldn't have been welcomed, had it happened. In fact, with the state the EU is now in, I'd say the stars have aligned quite nicely.

Correct!

At no point were we given the chance to decide whether we should be part of a single European state. In what way could those of us who didn't want to be part of that have the chance to vote to stop it?

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by Chris

No, we didn't - any more than Scotland voted for separation by electing the SNP, as the outcome of the 2014 referendum proved.

We elect a government with a broad manifesto. Nobody is in love with every line of that manifesto; it's just a matter of picking the one that's the best fit with your own views.

An EU referendum has not been a top priority until now. That's not to say it wouldn't have been welcomed, had it happened. In fact, with the state the EU is now in, I'd say the stars have aligned quite nicely.

Two points:

One of the main aspirations of the SNP is independence and aren't they already mumbling about having another go party based on the mandate inferred by their majority (didn't really want to take this thread to far off course - sure there's a thread for this elsewhere)

I accept (sadly) that manifestos are usually lacking, but using your logic if the stance on Europe was important then more people would/could/should have moved it up their list of priorities when selecting the manifesto that best suited them. We have had choice but the election results show (using your manifesto argument) that our relationship with Europe is well down the electorates list of priorities.

As you know, the government is elected to represent our best interests on a national and international level. We 'trust' them to do the job on our behalf and as such we have voted to stay in Europe every time we've elected a pro-european party.

Now I'm not saying our past actions have been right or wrong, I'm just saying it as I see it. I think many of you would be surprised to know I'm leaning more to out as the days tick by.

Cheers

Grim

The problem with your argument is that you effectively make every general election into a referendum on a single issue (EU membership). If the EU is sufficiently low in people's priorities, e.g. they may not like it, but are prepared to tolerate it for the time being, then it is quite possible for them to vote for a manifesto whose position on the EU is the exact opposite of their own, simply because everything else that manifesto says is more attractive to them.

You are right, the SNP is all about independence, but you're ignoring the fact that the same electorate that voted the SNP into power in 2011, also voted against independence in 2014. This is because in 2011, everything else the SNP had to say about the governance of Scotland, was more appealing to the electorate than that said by the main opposition (Labour).