[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU - Page 57

**Damien** · 13-03-2016, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

On the contrary getting out of this madness is the right policy IMO. Let the rest of the EU wallow in Turkish migrants.

Well every single state would have to agree to their accession which I think is unlikely and France need a super majority in the senate to overrule their people getting a referendum on any new state joining. We too can veto it if we remain a member.

As I said his argument is flawed. The best way to protect ourselves from Turkey joining the EU and the increased instability it may bring would be by remaining inside the EU and stopping it. I fail to see what leaving would achieve because we can leave the EU but we'll still be on Europe's doorstep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweedle

I hope you understand how much the few sentences above make it seem you're totally clueless about Britain's relationship with the EU, An what being A EU citizen means when it comes to moving/living in the UK.

Open borders no, but EU citizen status will get you into the UK. A little bit of knowledge is a terrible thing.

I know what the EU means and I know the rules about freedom of movement. It's a fairly basic part of the EU. If you read the article and the post I am talking specifically about the argument made in that article regarding the borders of Turkey. No need to be so mean-spirited about it especially when you had to deliberately misrepresent my post to do so.

Osem · 13-03-2016, 17:55

I for one don't think our negotiating position with the EU will be enhanced if we stay in. If anything we'll be in a weaker position having had the chance to get out and decided to stay in. We've been trying to get reform in the EU for years and loom where it's got us. The notion that they'll suddenly start listening to the UK is naïve IMHO.

tweedle · 13-03-2016, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

No need to be so mean-spirited about it especially when you had to deliberately misrepresent my post to do so.

I think you're being mean-spirited and deliberately misrepresenting my post. I quite clearly started my post with "I hope you understand" an then went to explain how your post may make you look as if you do not understand the UK's relationship with the EU.

I then left it open for you to reply and clear up any misunderstanding. It is very mean spirited of you to attack me and claim I misrepresented your post. I do not expect an apology.

**Damien** · 13-03-2016, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

I for one don't think our negotiating position with the EU will be enhanced if we stay in. If anything we'll be in a weaker position having had the chance to get out and decided to stay in. We've been trying to get reform in the EU for years and loom where it's got us. The notion that they'll suddenly start listening to the UK is naïve IMHO.

We'll have a veto. Doesn't matter if they listen to us, we'll still be able to block it.

heero_yuy · 13-03-2016, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

We'll have a veto. Doesn't matter if they listen to us, we'll still be able to block it.

Don't you believe it. The EU has form on being able to circumvent any veto through other routes.

**Damien** · 13-03-2016, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweedle

I think you're being mean-spirited and deliberately misrepresenting my post. I quite clearly started my post with "I hope you understand" an then went to explain how your post may make you look as if you do not understand the UK's relationship with the EU.

I then left it open for you to reply and clear up any misunderstanding. It is very mean spirited of you to attack me and claim I misrepresented your post. I do not expect an apology.

My post had nothing to do with freedom of movement and you ended with 'a little bit of knowledge is a terrible thing'. Your intention is clear.

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:12 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Don't you believe it. The EU has form on being able to circumvent any veto through other routes.

They haven't been able to do so with the vetos we have used.

tweedle · 13-03-2016, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

My post had nothing to do with freedom of movement and you ended with 'a little bit of knowledge is a terrible thing'. Your intention is clear.

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:12 ----------

They haven't been able to do so with the vetos we have used.

You mean the Vetos we used but were ignored? I mean you do understand we have used vetos that have counted for nothing and they have been ignored.

---------- Post added at 18:23 ---------- Previous post was at 18:21 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

We'll have a veto. Doesn't matter if they listen to us, we'll still be able to block it.

Oh dear lol, oh dear oh dear ................

techguyone · 13-03-2016, 18:37

Genuine question as I don't know, has the UK vetoed another state from trying to join, and who vetoes? it's not the people, it's the Govt right?

**Damien** · 13-03-2016, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by techguyone

Genuine question as I don't know, has the UK vetoed another state from trying to join, and who vetoes? it's not the people, it's the Govt right?

Yeah it's the government. France has a law that obliges it to be put to a referendum but that can be overruled with a super majority in their Senate.

tweedle · 13-03-2016, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Yeah it's the government. France has a law that obliges it to be put to a referendum but that can be overruled with a super majority in their Senate.

So the "rule" is pointless as far as the general population is concerned.

ianch99 · 13-03-2016, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweedle

So the "rule" is pointless as far as the general population is concerned.

Isn't that what is called Democracy? The Government decides on behalf of the people unless it concludes that it does not have a mandate to do so ..

Osem · 13-03-2016, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

We'll have a veto. Doesn't matter if they listen to us, we'll still be able to block it.

Yeah right. They'll find a way to do what they want just like they always have.

Big Brian · 14-03-2016, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

I for one don't think our negotiating position with the EU will be enhanced if we stay in. If anything we'll be in a weaker position having had the chance to get out and decided to stay in. We've been trying to get reform in the EU for years and loom where it's got us. The notion that they'll suddenly start listening to the UK is naïve IMHO.

That's for sure. They will see us as weak. Remember that this 'deal' Cameron made has to be agreed by the European Parliament long after the referendum. The other 27 Countries also have to sell the deal to their own Parliaments and there will be people in these Countries who won't be happy with it. After all, why should the UK be treated any different to the rest? We're all in the same boat after all.

What I believe will happen is that not all Euro MPs will vote for this deal and there is a scenario where it may not even get through. In that event all this will have been for nothing and a lot of money will have been wasted. It will be very difficult for the UK to get anything more out of the EU if we stay.

---------- Post added at 09:17 ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

We'll have a veto. Doesn't matter if they listen to us, we'll still be able to block it.

Yes we have a veto but Osbourne wouldn't commit to using it on the Andrew Marr show. IMHO I doubt they would veto Turkey joining as there are another potential 70 million customers for our trade should we stay in.

The point is that if we do remain in the EU we won't have the same clout we do now as they will think we are too feart to leave and they can walk all over us should they chose to.

Also this so-called voice we have by being in the EU is a fallacy to an extent. Every time we make a suggestion we are outnumbered 27/1 until we convince other Countries otherwise as are they. Do you really believe they listen to us now and will listen any more if we stay? I think we've shot our bolt with the EU by holding this referendum and I think reading between the lines Osbourne does too and going by that, the rest of the Tory Party.

Kursk · 14-03-2016, 14:10

The one true veto is OUT. To quote The Beatles "Hello, Goodbye".

Big Brian · 14-03-2016, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99

Isn't that what is called Democracy? The Government decides on behalf of the people unless it concludes that it does not have a mandate to do so ..

No it isn't. Did you know that Russia is more democratic than we are? Let me explain what I mean. Though it's a One-Party-State, everyone has a say from the person in the street up to the top man. We do not. If Russia had 2 Parties or more it would be the most democratic country in the world.

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Oh dear! What have we started?

Falling like dominoes: Now Dutch wants own EU vote & Czechs say they might leave

DUTCH voters have demanded their own in/out referendum on EU membership amid fears in Brussels the whole 28-country bloc is under threat.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...Claude-Juncker

Is The EU Dead?

https://cfrankdavis.wordpress.com/20...s-the-eu-dead/