More cuts from failing Osborne

[Chrysalis]

Tweedle its the law of the land that if you in a privileged position to earn more then you contribute more in taxes.

Work hard earn more, yes, although that can only really apply to hours worked rather than the pay per hour. The hardest job I have ever done was also ironically my lowest paid job.

Unpaid taxes is just as bad as the benefit fraud you make noises about. You think you just keeping hold of your money but you not, you withholding money from the state.

Not to mention there is people on disability benefits with conditions that were caused by "working hard", there is such as thing as working too hard.

[tweedle]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Tweedle its the law of the land that if you in a privileged position to earn more then you contribute more in taxes.

Work hard earn more, yes, although that can only really apply to hours worked rather than the pay per hour. The hardest job I have ever done was also ironically my lowest paid job.

Unpaid taxes is just as bad as the benefit fraud you make noises about. You think you just keeping hold of your money but you not, you withholding money from the state.

You think working hard spending most of the week away from loved ones is privileged? Seriously? Seeing your family for the final 4 or 5 hours of the day is now privileged? Coming in from work tired, grabbing a shower and something to eat then going to bed is NOW F$%^KING PRIVILEGED?!

[Stuart]

I think a balance needs to be struck.. While I don't want to punish those who genuinely need benefits, I've seen too many people that are on benefits walking around in labels (I know one who won't wear any clothes that are not from a label), £150 trainers and driving new BMWs. I'm not saying everyone does that. They don't, but I know people on benefits who have a higher disposable income than I do, and I am one of the people in the 30 to 40k bracket.

TBH, I do get angry why I see people who only bother to work when sanctioned by the DWP, and spend most of their days on the PS4, yet can still afford to buy £200 trainers, designer label clothes and state of the art home entertainment when I work and can only afford to go to Primark and can't afford a new TV (although my 2011 Samsung is still fine) because I have to pay all my own bills.

[tweedle]

Originally Posted by Stuart

I think a balance needs to be struck.. While I don't want to punish those who genuinely need benefits, I've seen too many people that are on benefits walking around in labels (I know one who won't wear any clothes that are not from a label), £150 trainers and driving new BMWs. I'm not saying everyone does that. They don't, but I know people on benefits who have a higher disposable income than I do, and I am one of the people in the 30 to 40k bracket.

Also the time you spend away from loved ones has a value,

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by tweedle

You think working hard spending most of the week away from loved ones is privileged? Seriously? Seeing your family for the final 4 or 5 hours of the day is now privileged? Coming in from work tired, grabbing a shower and something to eat then going to bed is NOW F$%^KING PRIVILEGED?!

I think to even have a job is privileged given there isnt enough (paid) work to go round the whole population, to be on a well above average wage is most definitely privileged, I also happen to think this myth that I earn more than you must mean I work harder is a load of crap, and whats with your tone, you need to see a shrink if you need to make lies about claimants and think your own welfare is all that matters.

Having been in both sides of the fence I can say without a doubt when I was doing 72 hours a week 12 hour shifts, it was a much easier life than when I was on incapacity benefit, no question about it. Have you been on both sides of the fence? Not to mention that wasnt a well paid job and I still consider it a much better part of my life.

Oh and about loved ones, some people are so disabled they will have almost no chance of having their own children.

[tweedle]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

you need to see a shrink if you need to make lies about claimants and think your own welfare is all that matters.

My own welfare and that of my family are first and foremost to me, but your above comment now leaves me with no option than as to ignore everything else you say.

Personal attacks are typical left wing tactics. I'm not racist, I do my bit, An I go out my way to help. I'm very happy. Oh, and I don't need a shrink, but thanks for showing your true colours.

Your out of date nonsense arguments have no value, but you're free to keep whinging.

Oh an go look into how many unfilled job vacancies there is currently in the UK, You'll find there are plenty.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Unpaid taxes is just as bad as the benefit fraud you make noises about. You think you just keeping hold of your money but you not, you withholding money from the state.

The problem there is that the kinds of people who are mega rich, or the companies (such as Apple, Amazon, Starbucks and Facebook) can afford expensive lawyers. As such, the Government, before they can take action, need to ensure that any laws they are going to rely on are watertight (which takes time).

That's not to excuse the "deals" they have made though, as while these look impressive, we still lose out.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Stuart

I think a balance needs to be struck.. While I don't want to punish those who genuinely need benefits, I've seen too many people that are on benefits walking around in labels (I know one who won't wear any clothes that are not from a label), £150 trainers and driving new BMWs. I'm not saying everyone does that. They don't, but I know people on benefits who have a higher disposable income than I do, and I am one of the people in the 30 to 40k bracket.

TBH, I do get angry why I see people who only bother to work when sanctioned by the DWP, and spend most of their days on the PS4, yet can still afford to buy £200 trainers, designer label clothes and state of the art home entertainment when I work and can only afford to go to Primark and can't afford a new TV (although my 2011 Samsung is still fine) because I have to pay all my own bills.

Probably shoplifted or brought on credit that they will default on, because lets be realistic, 70 quid a week dole money isnt going to buy you labeled clothes. Might even be fake labels.

I also would love to know how people know someone walking down the street is on benefits or not, I can say when I was on unemployment benefits I certainly didnt advertise it. This is what makes it so hard to believe, not to mention a wealthy person who supposedly has benefit claimants as a neighbour in the same area.

Lets put things into perspective, even tho I work again (from home), I am still without luxuries in life that others take for granted, such as going for walks, bike riding, social events, date's etc.

The fraud I do know that goes on is some people on the dole will carry on claiming it even if they have a job, that is something I did myself once when I had a extremely low paid job, there was a period of time in Leicester where dole claimants didnt need to sign on, so I "forgot" to inform the DWP I had a job.

After about 3 months tho I felt guilty so walked up to the desk and confessed, the lady looked away pretending she didnt hear me, so I walked out again and closed the claim by post.

[tweedle]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Probably shoplifted

Holy crap, so benefits claimants are now shop lifters? You really are a piece of work!

I know you wil struggle to understand this, but "nasty" "selfish" "uncaring" they have been used to much and have lost any meaning.

Tell me I'm nasty and I will simply say...............I'm not. But you defrauded the benefit system , you're the lowest of the low. You took money from the genuinely needy, an you did this for 3 months, knowing full well the genuinely needy would have to go without.

Your low paid job would of been topped up with tax credits but I guess this wasn't enough for you so you defrauded the benefit system. But I must ask, what year did you do this what hourly rate were you on and how many hours did you work?

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

The fraud I do know that goes on is some people on the dole will carry on claiming it even if they have a job, that is something I did myself once when I had a extremely low paid job, there was a period of time in Leicester where dole claimants didnt need to sign on, so I "forgot" to inform the DWP I had a job.

After about 3 months tho I felt guilty so walked up to the desk and confessed, the lady looked away pretending she didnt hear me, so I walked out again and closed the claim by post.

I ask again, what year did you do this, what hourly rate were you on, how many hours did you work? How nasty must you be to defraud the needy of much needed funds.

EDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm struggling with this, you've branded benefits claimers "probably shop lifters" and you've taken money from the poorest and most needy in society. I just cannot understand such a nasty selfish way of living.

[Chrysalis]

Tweedle I am merely making the point that its more likely those clothes were not paid for in cash than they were.

So yes could have been shoplifted, on credit, gift from friends/family.

We are talking about fraud when the reason for these cuts has already been given, and of course no surprise its not to do with fraud, they admitted PIP been introduced was to cut costs, that was its intended purpose, those cuts would be achieved by making it harder to qualify on mobility grounds, its worth pointing out here that it is extremely hard to qualify for PIP for mobility, the criteria is extremely strict. Its very possible that someone can have very limited mobility but not qualify for PIP on mobility grounds, especually with how mobility aids are treated. The way they intend to achieve these cuts is basically by moving goalposts, so the qualifying criteria, this is because the DWP have been losing too many tribunal cases, which in short means PIP hasnt achieved the cuts it was targeted to make, thats it really, nothing to do with fraud.

Of course fraud was brought into this conversation because it makes the cuts seem more morally sound if we all think legit disabled people are not affected by it.

Tweedle, you are one for dishing it out, its as if you wasnt expected it to come back at you.

This is just the tip of the iceberg as well, there is cuts nationwide for council run services that are aimed to help vulnerable people due to how much this government is squeezing council budgets and tying their hands in tax rises. Obviously I am going to be upset whilst we have a government that is claiming to be broke, yet is dishing out tax cuts to the middle class and spending billions on foreign aid.

[tweedle]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

The fraud I do know that goes on is some people on the dole will carry on claiming it even if they have a job, that is something I did myself once when I had a extremely low paid job, there was a period of time in Leicester where dole claimants didnt need to sign on, so I "forgot" to inform the DWP I had a job.

After about 3 months tho I felt guilty so walked up to the desk and confessed, the lady looked away pretending she didnt hear me, so I walked out again and closed the claim by post.

I'm sorry but you are one of the people responsable for the cuts, you knowingly and willingly stole from a system already under strain.

I ask again, what year did you defraud the benefits system, what was your hourly wage, how many hours did you work? Claiming to be broke whilst you actually had a wage coming in is upsetting to the genuine claimants.

You genuinely don't seem to understand the money you stole may of saved a life, helped a genuine needy person, funded a project to help the poorest in society.

How much of a low life are you? I pay as much as £250 in a single week in tax, an my wife more some weeks. An you tell us we should pay more whilst you steal money from the needy? You really help the case for the lefties.

[richard s]

Lefties are not all Tea leafs.

[denphone]

Indeed Richard and likewise not all righties are idiots or nasty Tories but the trouble is some try to stereotype certain groups but someone with a bit of intelligence and who is of rational thought would not think like that generally...

[tweedle]

Originally Posted by richard s

Lefties are not all Tea leafs.

Only a fool would think all lefties are "Tea Leafs" just like only a fool would think all righties are "nasty an selfish" I am sure you will agree.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by tweedle

How much of a low life are you? I pay as much as £250 in a single week in tax, an my wife more some weeks. An you tell us we should pay more whilst you steal money from the needy? You really help the case for the lefties.

I see your point but we really should avoid quoting numbers regarding our respective tax bills.

----

FWIW I have no issues with the taxes I pay but would prefer our welfare system to be far more contributory, and for our taxation system to be dramatically simplified and have the anomalies and various 'humps' in the progressive rates removed. Contribution based would get shot of at least some of the issues of generations of families living off welfare.

I'm very unhappy with the level of cuts being handed down by the government. It is doing some hideous things to my local area.

I dislike how much taxation in the UK is skewed to income rather than wealth, we should be taxing unproductive activities, not productive and gainful employment, more.

Tempted as I am to go through the past couple of pages and pick holes in contradictions and frankly extreme statements made I'll pass.

If all this makes me some 'socialist' who wants to steal other people's income and redistribute it so be it. I don't want a pay as you go state, I want a fair and reasonable one at both ends of the income scale. Increased equality can actually have a dramatic effect on the vast majority of incomes and outcomes.