[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Osem]

Now why would HMG wish to grossly understate the migration numbers I wonder?




---------- Post added at 13:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------

Originally Posted by Sirius

I so wish we could get this over with and i can vote NO.

Look at it this way, - we need to use the time we have to argue to case for 'out' to as many people as we can. If HMG could have set the date sooner I'm sure they would have done. The last thing they want is more time for the truth to come out.

You can bet your life that if the circumstances had been different (i.e. all things EU been getting better), our glorious leaders would have set the date further into the future. As it is they know more chaos lies ahead so they're doing everything they can to try to keep us in. I just hope the great British public see through this deception and base their decision on what we've actually learned about the nature of the EU since the 1970's rather than the lies and scare stories being put about.

We must get out before it's too late!

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Osem

Now why would HMG wish to grossly understate the migration numbers I wonder?




---------- Post added at 13:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------



Look at it this way, - we need to use the time we have to argue to case for 'out' to as many people as we can. If HMG could have set the date sooner I'm sure they would have done. The last thing they want is more time for the truth to come out.

You can bet your life that if the circumstances had been different (i.e. all things EU been getting better), our glorious leaders would have set the date further into the future. As it is they know more chaos lies ahead so they're doing everything they can to try to keep us in. I just hope the great British public see through this deception and base their decision on what we've actually learned about the nature of the EU since the 1970's rather than the lies and scare stories being put about.

We must get out before it's too late!

I actually think their timing is deliberate. This so-called deal is still fresh in the mind.

Originally Posted by techguyone

I know the Govt is really dragging its heels over showing how many 'Active Nat Insurance numbers it's given out, which is a disturbing lack of transparency. Especially as the numbers may not match the official 'people - in' figure...

For me the big issue will be that the whole campaign will be like this, with lies or porkies at least told, misinformation & fear.

We're not on a level playing field and its bs

National insurance number applications (NINOS) do not and never have matched the number of migrants entering this country ,because of time lag between a migrant entering the country and applying for a NI means they are notoriously unreliable as a way to measure immigrant numbers.Also in recent years there have been a number of government initiatives aimed at getting people of the black economy and working legally ,these would include migrants working illegally at your kebab shop to the 50,000 Romanies granted NI numbers to try to get them to work legally,these are people who have been in the country for years ,some even born here.There is also NI fraud where multiple applications are made

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Stephen Hawking doesn't think leaving is a good idea either. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35772714

Hawking might just be wrong link

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Sirius

I so wish we could get this over with and i can vote NO.

Agreed!

[djfunkdup]

Toodle pip Mr Spounging Europe ..

it was good knowing you when it mattered Now your like a huge pointless unsightly spot on our Arsenal.


Byeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Osem]

Get the message out there folks. Don't keep it to yourselves!

The vested interests who want us shackled to the EU have massive resources and to win this battle ordinary people have to get off their bottoms, spread the word and vote.

Originally Posted by Osem

Get the message out there folks. Don't keep it to yourselves!

The vested interests who want us shackled to the EU have massive resources and to win this battle ordinary people have to get off their bottoms, spread the word and vote.

There are a number of powerful people who want out of the EU as well, i.e a lot of the press, this isn't the ordinary people against the elites. It's two groups of people who disagree with each other.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Osem

Get the message out there folks. Don't keep it to yourselves!

The vested interests who want us shackled to the EU have massive resources and to win this battle ordinary people have to get off their bottoms, spread the word and vote.

Well said my friend. Like the Scottish referendum the Yes Campaign thought they had it won and had to do nothing. The IN Campaign in this case think they have it won and are only spreading fear and doom to ensure their victory. The Yougov Poll of Polls has IN 51%, OUT 49%. Yes folks it's that close. All these forums have OUT leading by a big margin but this is the one most go by.

http://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls/

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Well said my friend. Like the Scottish referendum the Yes Campaign thought they had it won and had to do nothing.

No they didn't. The Yes campaign were far more active and cohesive than the No campaign. Big rallies, massive online presence and a really active set of activists who were going to every town, every door and every Internet comment section to campaign for a Yes vote. The No campaign won in the end but prior to the vote it the polls were a lot further out than they become and it was far too close.

he IN Campaign in this case think they have it won and are only spreading fear and doom to ensure their victory.

And to go back to the Scotland example it turned out some fears are real. The 'project fear' campaign then turned out to have saved Scotland from some considerable economic consequences.

[techguyone]

Originally Posted by martyh

National insurance number applications (NINOS) do not and never have matched the number of migrants entering this country ,because of time lag between a migrant entering the country and applying for a NI means they are notoriously unreliable as a way to measure immigrant numbers.Also in recent years there have been a number of government initiatives aimed at getting people of the black economy and working legally ,these would include migrants working illegally at your kebab shop to the 50,000 Romanies granted NI numbers to try to get them to work legally,these are people who have been in the country for years ,some even born here.There is also NI fraud where multiple applications are made

I know, that's why I did say ACTIVE numbers...

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

There are a number of powerful people who want out of the EU as well, i.e a lot of the press, this isn't the ordinary people against the elites. It's two groups of people who disagree with each other.

I didn't say the 'elite' ALL want us in. What I said was that if we're going to get out ORDINARY people have to get us out and that's a fact.

All the major political parties want us to stay in and they have far more power and influence both within the UK and EU than those who want out do.

Originally Posted by techguyone

I know, that's why I did say ACTIVE numbers...

Which doesn't make any difference .inactive or dormant numbers only happen when people die or do not use the number to claim benefits,live abroad in some cases or have not worked .Using NI numbers whether active or inactive as a tool to count migrants does not work .Only conspiracy rags like the Sun think it does

[Big Brian]

Well Osbourne has thrown a sprat to catch a whale by hinting on what's in the upcoming budget on Wednesday. He's painting a picture of doom and gloom as regards our economy. Obviously a trick to manipulate an IN vote.

What angers me is he is planning on cutting disability benefits but as usual making the rich richer. Why doesn't her go after them in order to sort out the economy if it's as bad as he makes out?

No doubt I'll have something to say on the EU after I hear him on the Andrew Marr show this morning - Assuming he allows him to speak that is. Boris ran rings round Marr last week and that's why he kept interrupting him.

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Well Osbourne has thrown a sprat to catch a whale by hinting on what's in the upcoming budget on Wednesday. He's painting a picture of doom and gloom as regards our economy. Obviously a trick to manipulate an IN vote.

I don't think it's a trick. I mean it hardly looks good on him that he the economy continues to be rather stagnant and that he keeps having to revise his outlook and plans every six months. He is 6 years into the job now.

Besides you can see the economy is still rather concerning around the world. Asia has been really turbulent, the US fears a recession, Europe continues to muddle along between recession or flatlining growth.

This isn't all about Britain and the EU.

---------- Post added at 10:10 ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 ----------

Originally Posted by Big Brian

What angers me is he is planning on cutting disability benefits but as usual making the rich richer. Why doesn't her go after them in order to sort out the economy if it's as bad as he makes out?

I agree he shouldn't cut disability benefit in order to fund a tax cut but we are talking about the 40p tax band which kicks in around £42,000. Hardly 'rich'.

Still I do wonder how he can continue to justify cutting more and more of disability benefit. He had public support for job seekers allowance, child benefit and so on but going after people who are disabled is pretty risky and inhumane. This benefit is a budget which allows a greater degree of personal liberty from what i understand, i.e money to account for the additional costs facing disabled people such as taxi fares instead of buses, so why bother cutting that?