UK power generating capacity - problem solved

[Osem]

Yes, here's the grand plan for ensuring the lights don't go out.

French energy firm EDF will extend the life of four of its eight nuclear power plants in the UK.

The move will safeguard 2,000 jobs and help with tight energy supplies.

Heysham 1 and Hartlepool will have their life extended by five years until 2024, while Heysham 2 and Torness will see their closure dates pushed back by seven years to 2030.

Meanwhile, EDF said its 2015 profits fell 68% to €1.18bn mainly due to writedowns on coal-fired plants.

The results were below analysts' expectations.

The value of plants in the UK, Italy, Poland and Belgium fell, and the company also took charges on its Edison oil and gas exploration business.

EDF will cut its dividend by 15 cents to €1.10 a share with an option for payment in new shares rather than cash.

Its shares have fallen almost 25% since the start of the year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35583740

It's great to see the French putting the UK's needs so highly after all these years.

Seriously, nuclear should never have been abandoned to foreign ownership and if there'd been any sort of political will to ensure our energy security, we wouldn't be in this position now. IMHO low oil prices are just adding to the chaos and high level dithering and make our energy security situation even more perilous.

[heero_yuy]

It's a better plan that the environmentalists would have: Cover the country in windturbines and solar farms. Shut everything else down and everybody gets a power cut on those still, dull winter days or when there's a howling gale and rain.

I just hope the stay of execution isn't used as an excuse for contined procrustination. We need reliable base load generation.

I'd rather we used as many different energy sources as we can.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

It's a better plan that the environmentalists would have: Cover the country in windturbines and solar farms. Shut everything else down and everybody gets a power cut on those still, dull winter days or when there's a howling gale and rain.

I just hope the stay of execution isn't used as an excuse for contined procrustination. We need reliable base load generation.

Too true and what a sad indictment of UK power generating policy that is.

[rhyds]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I'd rather we used as many different energy sources as we can.

A sensible mix is indeed needed, but it has to be balanced right.

There's no point closing the coal power stations until we have sufficient generating capacity to replace them. Nuclear is the best replacement for coal as it provides the same steady baseload power that a coal power station does, and is reliable. Once we have the nukes online we can scale the coal stations back, as they are pretty dirty things.

Wind can play a part, however it should only be a minority player in the UK energy mix. The UK isn't that large geographically, so its very easy for us to have a high pressure system sit over us (Especially in winter) meaning little or no wind output during times of high demand. Solar can also play a minor part, but as it can't generate at night it can't be relied upon.

Gas is flexible, and is very good at covering the fluctuations from Wind and solar generation because it can be easily wound up and down to match demand. The problem is that gas prices will not stay low, therefore we need to carefully consider before we build too many gas power stations.

In the UK, hydro is not really a big provider of power outside of the Scottish highlands. We don't have the massive mountain ranges needed for really high power hydro installs, and environ-mentalists would go spare if you suggested drowning a valley. Pumped Storage might be worth looking at again if we end up with lots of surplus power, but again its very much dependant on geography.

The biggest waste of time and money at the moment (aside from wind) has to be tidal power. The theory is brilliant, tides are predictable and can therefore provide predictable power. The problem is the amount of power you can get from even the largest tidal power installations is shockingly small.

[pip08456]

We still need more nuclear plants purely because of the amount of energy they provide.

The problem is the length of time they take to build due to the safety measures that need incorporating which I wouldn't want to change.

[Taf]

I often listen to French radio and wasn't surprised to hear that EDF is in panic mode over there. Over 50 nuclear stations under it's control, 2 more planned (plus 2 in the UK), wholesale electricity costs have dropped by almost half, and thousands of it's workforce being laid off (but not without a fight of course). They are demanding an increase in the price or its electricity in order to "stay profitable", but the politicians have dug their heels in. They say they need extra money to "safely" decomission several sites (including those in the UK) but are being ignored.

So does that mean they will decomission, but not "safely"? Or is all just a gallic threat?

[Osem]

... and therein lies much of the basis upon which HMG sold it off doesn't it? Aside from the cash raised, transfer the risk and blame to others... The French didn't go down that route and now their politicians are going to cop the flak when then inevitable happens.

Ultimately of course, the UK taxpayer will pick up the bill if all else fails.

[Horizon]

.... like the banks, they're private right up until they run into a problem, then they're public again.

Also in the news today, German energy supplier, RWE, reported a loss and their shares were down alomst 10%. They own a lot of UK power stations and have millions of customers here.

---------- Post added at 14:58 ---------- Previous post was at 14:54 ----------

The only way to resolve the energy problem in this country, is for all of us to produce some of our own electricity ourselves. Whether that be ugly solar panels, wind turbines or some other solution. We would still need at least half a dozen nuclear stations to fill in the gaps.

Fusion power will happen in the future within the next 50 years, but that's probably beyond the lifetimes of many of us here. So we need something to plug the gap and relying on Czar Putin is not the way to go.

[hedgie]

Originally Posted by Horizon

.... Fusion power will happen in the future within the next 50 years, but that's probably beyond the lifetimes of many of us here. So we need something to plug the gap and relying on Czar Putin is not the way to go.

I hope so, I have working ITER for almost six years between other projects. that project has political problems you can't even dream up.

If you are interested in Fusion read here

www.iter.org

On a different note apparently National Grid don't like to have large scale mirco generation. ie solar on your houses, they cant control it and it upsets the balance on the grid. I'm sure this problem can be solved though.

[Osem]

If we ever really get the benefit of plummeting energy prices passed on to us mere consumers, I wonder what that'll do to the domestic solar energy market for example? I'd hate to think that what I believe is a blip, whether politically driven or not, would turn out to be yet another reason for protracted dithering about the problems staring us in the face.

[Taf]

I suspect OPEC is getting ready to destabilise the market further quite soon. War of some sort is on the cards more than ever, not just minor strategic strikes.

[Osem]

I've long been of the opinion that what's been happening in recent years represents almost the perfect storm brewing and what we have is a situation where an error of judgement or irrational act by Putin, Erdogan, Netanyahu Obama or whoever could set off a chain of events that ends in major conflict.

The relative (and mortgaged) 'prosperity' enjoyed amongst the major nations within and without Europe has been masking a whole lot of simmering tensions and now things are getting a lot tougher in all sorts of ways I wouldn't be surprised if things come to a very nasty head in the not too distant future.

Anyway, hopefully I'm wrong and it'll all peter out but that's the main reason I've put off buying my solar panels...

[Osem]

Problem solved?... or maybe not...

The future of the planned new nuclear power plant at Hinkley Point remains in doubt as key French unions still oppose the project, BBC Newsnight has learned.

EDF, which would build the plant, had delayed a decision on the project in Somerset until the summer while it consulted French union representatives.

The company, which is 85% French state-owned, had hoped to win support from a committee of workplace representatives.

But the committee said staff had not been reassured about the plant's costs.

Trade union representatives hold six of the 18 seats on EDF's board.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36394601

Anyway it's good to know that it's proven, reliable, technology already successfully up and running on time/in budget elsewhere and that the main players are fully behind it...

Hinkley Point C, which would provide 7% of the UK's total energy requirements, had originally been meant to open in 2017.

But it has been hit in recent months by concerns about EDF's financial capacity to handle the project.

While one third of the £18bn capital costs of the project are being met by Chinese investors, Hinkley Point would remain an enormous undertaking for the stressed French company.

In April, French Energy Minister Ségolène Royale also suggested the project should be delayed.

Much of this scepticism is the consequence of problems in constructing nuclear power stations to similar designs elsewhere.

A plant being built by EDF at Flamanville in Normandy, northern France, has been hit by years of delays and spiralling costs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_(nuclear_reactor)

The EPR is a third generation pressurized water reactor (PWR) design. It has been designed and developed mainly by Framatome (now Areva NP) and Électricité de France (EDF) in France, and Siemens in Germany. In Europe this reactor design was called European Pressurized Reactor, and the internationalized name was Evolutionary Power Reactor, but it is now simply named EPR.

Four EPR units are under construction. The first two, in Finland and France, are both facing costly construction delays (to at least 2018). Construction commenced on two Chinese units in 2009 and 2010.[1] The Chinese units were to start operation in 2014 and 2015,[2] but are now expected to come online in 2017.[3]

EDF has acknowledged severe difficulties in building the EPR design. In September 2015 EDF stated that the design of a "New Model" EPR was being worked on, which will be easier and cheaper to build.[4]

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I suppose the good thing is, that French Unions are much more powerful that British Unions.

French Unions wont be pushed about, Like those in this country. We have stupid prats like Boris, and Cameron running as soon as there is any Union trouble. Then they try to bring out a law prevent Unions going on strike.

The other is, we should return to coal.
This would bring several things. Employment to deprived areas of the UK. Cheap coal for the elderly, instead of them being ripped off by energy companies.

Don't forget this country STILL IMPORTS COAL. And then we would have no worries of Power Station producing Electricity