Here we go again - Port Talbot to axe 1,000 steel jobs

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by tweedle

You're obsessed with left wing/ right wing, I just want to see people who need being helped and people stealing from those that need help with false claims for help being dealt with. An those that can help themselves doing so!

I suspect you're long term unemployed but you could be working, you would rather see everyone with nothing than go to work and provide for yourself.

Didn't answer the question then ..

You are so wrong: I have worked hard all my life and currently earn enough to be in the upper part of the 10th decile group for income distribution so I pay far more into the system than most.

I am not sure why you are resorting to insults, maybe you feel you have lost the argument?

[tweedle]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Didn't answer the question then ..

You are so wrong: I have worked hard all my life and currently earn enough to be in the upper part of the 10th decile group for income distribution so I pay far more into the system than most.

I am not sure why you are resorting to insults, maybe you feel you have lost the argument?

You're question was you were curious if they own the home or rented it, I stated they owned it. Question answered.

I suggest that we get back to the topic and avoid personal attacks

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I look at it this way. My father was born in Wales, l have been to various parts of Wales of the years. And they are great people.

I worked in Wales in the time of the Miners strike, where thousands of miners were ripped to pieces on what to do wether to work or go on strike to support there families.

The Mining Industry has been wiped out by Conservative Party, and now we have the steel Inudustry being wiped out by cheap imports. And yet, the Conservative Party are allowing this to happen.

They spent millions saving the banks, and yet they cannot save British Indutries. They are allowing cheap foreign imports to enter the British Market.

I believe what is happening is that Cameron and his puppet Osborne are just selling out to countries to can offer something to the rich, never mind communities.

Many years ago, this Country was the Biggest exporter of major goods. Now we are selling out

[tweedle]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I look at it this way. My father was born in Wales, l have been to various parts of Wales of the years. And they are great people.

I worked in Wales in the time of the Miners strike, where thousands of miners were ripped to pieces on what to do wether to work or go on strike to support there families.

The Mining Industry has been wiped out by Conservative Party, and now we have the steel Inudustry being wiped out by cheap imports. And yet, the Conservative Party are allowing this to happen.

They spent millions saving the banks, and yet they cannot save British Indutries. They are allowing cheap foreign imports to enter the British Market.

I believe what is happening is that Cameron and his puppet Osborne are just selling out to countries to can offer something to the rich, never mind communities.

Many years ago, this Country was the Biggest exporter of major goods. Now we are selling out

How are we selling out, an what major goods was this country the biggest exporter of? As for supporting the banks and letting industry die. Where are the millions in the streets protesting against this?

The millions will never go to the streets because they think it means a return to the Labours 70's. That's a fact,

[Stop It]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I look at it this way. My father was born in Wales, l have been to various parts of Wales of the years. And they are great people.

I worked in Wales in the time of the Miners strike, where thousands of miners were ripped to pieces on what to do wether to work or go on strike to support there families.

The Mining Industry has been wiped out by Conservative Party, and now we have the steel Inudustry being wiped out by cheap imports. And yet, the Conservative Party are allowing this to happen.

They spent millions saving the banks, and yet they cannot save British Indutries. They are allowing cheap foreign imports to enter the British Market.

I believe what is happening is that Cameron and his puppet Osborne are just selling out to countries to can offer something to the rich, never mind communities.

Many years ago, this Country was the Biggest exporter of major goods. Now we are selling out

That's a very simplistic view of things.

The steel price has been wiped out (Over 50% fall in 12 months) because Iron ore has dropped like a stone. You're quick to blame China for this mess, but they propped up the market for over 10 years by being the biggest new purchaser of commodities by far, raising their prices and thus keeping our (And Europe's) steel industries afloat be keeping prices higher across the board.

Now China has wobbled, they have a massive over supply of iron ore and thus domestic steel production and like us, it is killing them also. The Chinese strategy is to kill off legacy plants and invest in new tech like electric cars and the tech behind that. It's going to be painful for their industries to adapt too, and while the ruling party may be safe there, on the ground there's a painful transition happening.

That and as they know too well, the old coal fired steel plants are literally choking them to death. The government there are acutely sore about the charges their people are levelling against them regarding air quality and frankly, the status quo of producing steel (And other factory products) cheap with no regard of how it is made will not continue.

It's all too easy to look at the superficial reasons for anything. The mining industry was brutally closed because they were dragged on a decade too long and by the time Thatcher closed them they were a messy, old, and more importantly woefully uncompetitive industry. What happened after that is the scandal, as the divide between the areas that received support, and those just left to rot are pretty obvious to this day.

You can believe what you like, but if you look at this graph and tell me this is somehow Cameron and Co's doing, you are delusional. http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/BCOM:IND
Click 1Y on the graph. This is a measure of all commodities in the Bloomberg Index. As a whole, there has been a fall of near 30% since may. This affects everything from energy, to agriculture, to industry. Primary producers, from Iron Ore miners in Australia to dairy farmers here and in NZ are screwed.

Usually, places like PT would actually benefit from lower input prices, but because of our energy prices being too high, and because blast furnace produced steel is among the least efficient, it simply cannot cope with price falls that not only out-strip input cost falls, but with no market to sell their products to with too much steel in the first place.

As I said before, this is brutal, unfair and I feel for those affected, but we cannot support legacy industry just because that is all a community knows. Port Talbot needs targeted support to utilise the workforce and their skills in a way that CAN compete in an international market, not keep going a plant that is not fit for the 21st century.

[Russ]

Devastated.

I wonder how realistic it is for the government to ensure they use only British steel for infrastructure projects?

---------- Post added at 17:11 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Also the image Sajid Javid at a black tie event in Australia doesn't contrast well with the image of Corbyn at the plant in Port Talbot...

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Stop It

That's a very simplistic view of things.

The steel price has been wiped out (Over 50% fall in 12 months) because Iron ore has dropped like a stone. You're quick to blame China for this mess, but they propped up the market for over 10 years by being the biggest new purchaser of commodities by far, raising their prices and thus keeping our (And Europe's) steel industries afloat be keeping prices higher across the board.

Now China has wobbled, they have a massive over supply of iron ore and thus domestic steel production and like us, it is killing them also. The Chinese strategy is to kill off legacy plants and invest in new tech like electric cars and the tech behind that. It's going to be painful for their industries to adapt too, and while the ruling party may be safe there, on the ground there's a painful transition happening.

That and as they know too well, the old coal fired steel plants are literally choking them to death. The government there are acutely sore about the charges their people are levelling against them regarding air quality and frankly, the status quo of producing steel (And other factory products) cheap with no regard of how it is made will not continue.

It's all too easy to look at the superficial reasons for anything. The mining industry was brutally closed because they were dragged on a decade too long and by the time Thatcher closed them they were a messy, old, and more importantly woefully uncompetitive industry. What happened after that is the scandal, as the divide between the areas that received support, and those just left to rot are pretty obvious to this day.

You can believe what you like, but if you look at this graph and tell me this is somehow Cameron and Co's doing, you are delusional. http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/BCOM:IND
Click 1Y on the graph. This is a measure of all commodities in the Bloomberg Index. As a whole, there has been a fall of near 30% since may. This affects everything from energy, to agriculture, to industry. Primary producers, from Iron Ore miners in Australia to dairy farmers here and in NZ are screwed.

Usually, places like PT would actually benefit from lower input prices, but because of our energy prices being too high, and because blast furnace produced steel is among the least efficient, it simply cannot cope with price falls that not only out-strip input cost falls, but with no market to sell their products to with too much steel in the first place.

As I said before, this is brutal, unfair and I feel for those affected, but we cannot support legacy industry just because that is all a community knows. Port Talbot needs targeted support to utilise the workforce and their skills in a way that CAN compete in an international market, not keep going a plant that is not fit for the 21st century.

I just deleted my post because this said it far better.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I feel that the latest news of the whole British Steel industry is going to be wiped out. Is a disgrace for the Tories.

They wiped out the Miners, and now they are allowing the Steel Industry to go the same way.

Under the Conservative's MORE companies, and Industries have gone under.

In the Midlands, which was known as the heart of British Industry, this has almost gone under

We are NOT talking of 500 people, being made redundant - we are talking of 15.000, plus the support chain.

What company will invest in the Steel Industry, when it has lost out to cheap Imports.

I can just imagine it. Cameron and Co will have a meeting, and say, what other industry can we destroy.

*yawn* Your simplistic "its all the tories fault" is becoming very tiresome. Did you even read the excellent post above ?

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Paul, if you wish to go down the Polictical route. When Labour was in Government, how many Large Indusries went bust.

Under the Conservatives, we have seen the total wipe out of the Coal Industries, and Now the Steel Industry. We had the Chocolate Industry move abroad with FORIEGN OWNERS, this CADBURY chocolate, is now produced abroad

We have a proud British Work Force in this Country, But all the Tories are doing is ALLOWING foreign companies to move in and PRODUCE goods for the UK market

We have been under a Conservative for well over TEN YEARS, We have also BOMBERDIER, The train company lose a major Contract to overseas company.

I cannot think of anything else.

BUT, this would not be allowed under a Labour government

Can you prove me wrong.

http://researchbriefings.files.parli...7/CBP-7317.pdf

Page 5 graph shows the British Steel industry output declining by over 40% between 1998 and 2009.

https://fullfact.org/economy/did-uk-...-under-labour/

The number of people employed in the British Steel industry declined from 35000 in 1997 to 19000 in 2010, and output halved.

And as you have been informed before, Bombardier is a Canadian company...

Kraft acquired Cadburys under a Labour Government.

The Manufacturing Industry declined from 18% of GDP to 11% of GDP during the Labour governments of 1997-2010.

https://fullfact.org/economy/did-lab...manufacturing/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8499853.stm

The Conservatives have been in power (coalition or on their own) for just under 6 years, not well over 10.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Paul, if you wish to go down the Polictical route. When Labour was in Government, how many Large Indusries went bust.

Under the Conservatives, we have seen the total wipe out of the Coal Industries, and Now the Steel Industry. We had the Chocolate Industry move abroad with FORIEGN OWNERS, this CADBURY chocolate, is now produced abroad

We have a proud British Work Force in this Country, But all the Tories are doing is ALLOWING foreign companies to move in and PRODUCE goods for the UK market

We have been under a Conservative for well over TEN YEARS, We have also BOMBERDIER, The train company lose a major Contract to overseas company.

I cannot think of anything else.

BUT, this would not be allowed under a Labour government

Can you prove me wrong.

Yes. See above.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Well you have proved me wrong. BUT, at the end of the day, we are talking about thousands of British workers, being made redundant. Which is unfair and wrong.

David Cameron should be doing something to stop this happening. Remember, he said 'we are in this together'

Or is DC going to allow foreign imports, to cripple this country. No matter where you look, we need steel in this country.

There was a report in todays news, that TATA coulsd produce coal from PT. and this would offet the cost.

DC cannor be allowed to let this country go no lower.