100M : need advice and help for a possible fix

[MUD_Wizard]

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

Mud Wizard kindly suggested that the problem was not on the VM's side, as the graph was normal.

The graph was only normal after a reboot of the SH1. I did point you to a post written by me on the forum, which explained that the SH1 has a fault/bug/problem which causes high latency ramping over time. It can only be 'fixed' temporarily, not permanently, by rebooting, when in router mode.

The SH1 does not have the problem when in modem mode, so that is another alternative to getting another Superhub.

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

then the graph showed insane spikes, and i am not sure now, if its the VM's fault or not.

The erratic minimum latency (green) on the BQM, and general increasing instability is a clear case of SH1 ramping. I've seen hundreds of these graphs with the same issue. i.e. The problem is NOT on the VM network side, it's on the router/Superhub side (which was supplied by VM).

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

i am constantly switching between my BT powerline and Wifi to get the best results, more or less they are the same.

This is part of the problem, that you have multiple technologies and issues that you are trying to test with.

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

what no one could explain to me here is that why my internet was running perfectly fine last night, as i could play BO3 for hours using wifi connection with no lags, and the night before that i could not even play one match as my ping was through the roof.

If you try to judge your internet connection by the quality of your gaming to a specific server, then that's just adding several additional technologies into the testing mix and muddying things further.

Until your other problems are resolved its hard to say where your gaming problems lay, especially since people with perfect connections get problems just like you experience on those particular games.

Is it the load on the game server?
Is it the route through the internet?
Is it ... ?

These are all possibilities and you are just adding problems on top of problems.

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

what is not explained, is that why sometimes loading simple website takes so much time, like im using a dial up connection, and the next minute it loads up the same page super fast.

Right now, with your SH1 graph showing clear signs of ramping, the chances are that it's the ramping issue causing this problem. That's not to say that VM network issues can't cause problems like you've described, but they don't happen all the time.

Do try to bear in mind that people who have good broadband connections also experience problems with certain web sites. It's not called the internet for nothing. VM don't run the internet and only deliver traffic a short distance before other networks (often Content Delivery Networks or CDN's) take over on the route to your web site. So web site problems can happen anywhere down the line on the way to the site, at the site itself or on the way back.

Solve the worst problems first (SH1 ramping), then move on to the next worst and so on..

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

stop using powerline? ok, its disconnected now, and no one is home, but why my internet is slow just right now?
as i explained, VM says the same BS every time i contact them;

1 - that only the landlord can ask for a new SuperHub, not me
2 - and that a new SuperHub will not make any differences

VM know that the SH1 has this problem and they have exchanged it in the past for SH2/SH2ac, when the customer requests it. They don't want to recall all of them though in one go.

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

things i would like to know;

1 - if VM deliberately is not providing the services or the quality they supposed to provide
2 - how to force VM to replace our SH1 with the new one

1. According to your first BQM, you seem to be getting the same network quality other people are getting, but you've got a SH1 in the mix which is causing additional issues (ramping), plus you've got dodgy powerline/wifi in the mix as well. The powerline/wifi is not VM's responsibility.

2. If you were the customer the easiest way would be to post on the community forum and ask for a SH2/2ac to be sent by one of the VM Forum Team. No problems with explaining over the phone and getting your landlord to call in etc. They will need some customer info from the landlord, so the landlord will still need to do this.

---------- Post added at 21:13 ---------- Previous post was at 20:50 ----------

I don't see why you can't....

1. Wait until everybody is out.
2. Put the Superhub into modem mode.
3. Attach a very long ethernet cable to the Superhub and the other end to your computer.
4. Test the basics of the internet (ping some sites). Once you're sure you're getting a decent ping to the Superhub and to the internet (e.g. google) then..
5. Try your powerline adapter in the mix instead. Figure out if there's some problem with it or not. If you have more than 10ms additional latency then its crap.
6. Try someone elses powerline adapter (non-wifi version) instead. If the problem is just with your powerline adapter and not the electrical circuit then buying another powerline might do.
7. More testing etc.

Only after sorting the basics of modem mode (or replacement Superhub), ethernet cable, then powerline or wifi, and getting your internet performing well do you even think about games testing.

Thinking about purchasing a 3rd party router might come in after you're sure your VM connection works ok with a Superhub in modem mode. It's only a replacement for poor wifi or powerline. It wont fix a poorly performing VM connection, or a ramping Superhub if you leave it in router mode.

[Deathcrush87]

Dear Mud Wizard, Im really confused;

Originally Posted by MUD_Wizard

Well since the BQM monitors the latency from the Superhub to Thinkbroadband.com over the VM network and then the internet (excluding wifi or powerline), it shows that your VM connection hasn't gotten any worse.

Average latency (blue) of 10-12ms is very good.
Maximum latency (yellow) is also looking very good.

then;

Originally Posted by MUD_Wizard

According to your first BQM, you seem to be getting the same network quality other people are getting, but you've got a SH1 in the mix which is causing additional issues (ramping), plus you've got dodgy powerline/wifi in the mix as well. The powerline/wifi is not VM's responsibility.

[MUD_Wizard]

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

Dear Mud Wizard, Im really confused;

then;

The Superhub is a combo modem plus router all-in-one.

The modem part of the hub communicates with VM's Docsis cable network. This performs fine.

The router part of the hub does the ethernet and wifi routing as well as responding to ICMP (pings) that come from Thinkbroadband.

The flaw that causes the ramping latency effect is in the router part of the hub.

So a BQM might make it look like the VM network is going haywire (and you of course blame VM), even though its really a problem with the hub, because you're running it in router mode. If you ran the hub in modem mode you wouldn't notice the problem, because the router part of the hub is mostly inactive and doesn't cause the problem. So now suddenly you think VM have fixed the network. but neither is true, the network was always the same.



At the point just after you rebooted the SH1 we could see the true picture of your VM network connection, briefly. Your BQM looked just like mine for a while. Which is the statement I made in the first paragraph. Until the hub started to degrade the connection again...

You judge your VM internet connection by how well your:
- Superhub is working
- Powerline is working
- Wifi is working.
- Game is working.

Those four things are independent from your internet and you need to measure them separately.

[General Maximus]

and going by MUD's last two posts we have circled back round to

a) you need a new shub
b) ideally put the shub in modem mode and buy a proper router

[Deathcrush87]

i will probably get VM to send us a new superhub, however, that Linksys router would be too expensive for us at the moment.
is there anything cheaper you can suggest?
now, i understand the quality of that router you kindly suggested, but i can not purchase it myself (not that the money is the problem, but landlord and other would not like the idea), so the only option would be a cheaper substitute.

---------- Post added at 11:31 ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 ----------

are these any good?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/linksys-e1...e-router-a91ku

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/sitecom-x4...e-router-a76kt

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/tp-link-td...l-router-n07nf

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/netgear-si...e-router-a28kr

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/linksys-e9...e-router-n56nt

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/netgear-dg...l-router-n84hw

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/tp-link-tl...e-router-n30nf

[General Maximus]

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

is there anything cheaper you can suggest?

I don't like repeating myself but here we go:

Originally Posted by General Maximus

The only other routers I would recommend are the lower models in the same range which are more expensive or similar models from other brands such as Asus which are £100+ as this one should be.

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

now, i understand the quality of that router you kindly suggested, but i can not purchase it myself (not that the money is the problem, but landlord and other would not like the idea), so the only option would be a cheaper substitute

that does not make any sense whatsoever. If you went to the guys in your house and said "hey dudes, I am going to buy a new kick ass router which is going to fix all of our problems" I doubt they would complain. They are definitely not going to rejoice at a cheaper alternative.

I am not being a router snob but like I said before, there is a reason I say things and choose particular things. If you want to buy a cheap naff router then you had might as well stick with the shubs which are free. I haven't gone through every router in that list because I haven't got time but suffice to say that Netgear make the shub (infer what you will), I wouldn't touch tplink with a barge pole and the wan to lan throughput on the Linksys E900 is 94mbits and I imagine the E1500 would be similar.

I understand that you might not want to cough up £65 all by yourself which is why I suggested you spread the cost amongst you flat mates. You would be better off persevering atm and saving up some dosh over the next couple of months and getting the router I recommended (or put it on your xmas list) rather than buying one of the ones you suggested. There is a reason why they are around the £30 mark and they won't fix your problem. You might think £65 is a bit steep but you have got to remember that it is a top of the range router and should be £175.

[Deathcrush87]

Originally Posted by General Maximus

I don't like repeating myself but here we go:




that does not make any sense whatsoever. If you went to the guys in your house and said "hey dudes, I am going to buy a new kick ass router which is going to fix all of our problems" I doubt they would complain. They are definitely not going to rejoice at a cheaper alternative.

I am not being a router snob but like I said before, there is a reason I say things and choose particular things. If you want to buy a cheap naff router then you had might as well stick with the shubs which are free. I haven't gone through every router in that list because I haven't got time but suffice to say that Netgear make the shub (infer what you will), I wouldn't touch tplink with a barge pole and the wan to lan throughput on the Linksys E900 is 94mbits and I imagine the E1500 would be similar.

I understand that you might not want to cough up £65 all by yourself which is why I suggested you spread the cost amongst you flat mates. You would be better off persevering atm and saving up some dosh over the next couple of months and getting the router I recommended (or put it on your xmas list) rather than buying one of the ones you suggested. There is a reason why they are around the £30 mark and they won't fix your problem. You might think £65 is a bit steep but you have got to remember that it is a top of the range router and should be £175.

well im not sure if that router would still have the same price tag in a few months, the one you suggested i mean. it might be as well sold out at that price point.
unfortunately my housemates are not as understanding as you think. heck, they would not even pay up for the bin bag, or to replace a busted bulb!

there are 6 rooms and 7 ppl. 1 is away at the mental hospital for now. while he was back at home, he would probably spend his whole day staring at the selection menu on the TV anyway.
1 guy is working and studying the whole day, he comes home really late at nights and he just goes to bed.
2 (a couple) only use the internet to stream film and tv series, and my understanding is that now they use their mobile internet and chromecast in order to avoid the slow internet of the house. 2 are gamers, me and my next door's housemate, and as much as im keen on fixing the damn internet, he is not happy with sharing the bill.
1 guy remains, he has a PS3 and he only plays football on his console. he probably does not even know what an email account is.
i can not simply ask them to pay for something that according to them, i would be the only benefactor of it.
taking the bill all by myself will not make them happy. believe me when i say those morons would later suggest that my spendings made their internet slower!! they are not the most intellectual ppl you should know.

the only other option, is to ask the landlord to but a new router, and he will not spend that much. he does not understand your facts and figures, and guess what, imagine he purchased that and for some reason the internet got slow again (for any reason), im screwed! to him, its just an excessive spending because one tenant wants more than others.
i appreciate your help and suggestions, but im living in a shared property and others living here do not appreciate anything.
so, among the list above, or from elsewhere with the same price range, which one would be the best option to go for? looking at the specs i mean. im asking you or others here as i dont have a clue myself.
thanx fr your understanding.

[General Maximus]

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

which one would be the best option to go for?

none of them, I would rather lie my ass off to VM and use a shub2ac

[raging bull]

What about an Asus?
Currently using a RT-N56U, 2years old with no problem.

[General Maximus]

that I would recommend but he won't pay for it

http://www.amazon.co.uk/367/dp/B004T...s=asus+rt-n56u

[arcimedes]

There is one other solution to be considered. Move to another house although this would cost more than buying a router.

Originally Posted by General Maximus

none of them, I would rather lie my ass off to VM and use a shub2ac

Or they will swap it out for £20.

[General Maximus]

Originally Posted by arcimedes

There is one other solution to be considered. Move to another house although this would cost more than buying a router.

I feel like it is groundhog day, it has already been covered in a previous post (as in he can't).

Originally Posted by Hugh

Or they will swap it out for £20.

yup, I would rather pay £20 for a shub2ac than £30 on one of the other routers

[Deathcrush87]

Originally Posted by General Maximus

that I would recommend but he won't pay for it

http://www.amazon.co.uk/367/dp/B004T...s=asus+rt-n56u

lol General...

you were like: "nope, there is no cheaper substitute.."
but now you recommend a £10 cheaper Asus?

i bet i spend another 2 days here you would be suggesting a £20 router!!

stop being a perfectionist. for sure between 0 and 100 lies a 50, doesnt it?

---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:31 ----------

spec-wise, apart from being a dual band, what is the difference between Asus RT-N56U and Linksys E900?

[General Maximus]

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

but now you recommend a £10 cheaper Asus?

I chose my words poorly. I would recommend the Asus as a solid model for anyone as a general router because it is rock solid but in your case it would only solve half your problems so I wouldn't suggest you buy it even if you did want to pay £55 for one

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

spec-wise, apart from being a dual band, what is the difference between Asus RT-N56U and Linksys E900?

for starters the wan to lan throughput on the Asus is 800mbits vs the 94 on the Linksys (which I mentioned in a previous post)

Originally Posted by Deathcrush87

for sure between 0 and 100 lies a 50, doesnt it?

it sure does but in your case 50 won't cut it, you need the full 100 top of the range to address all your problems. If it wasn't for that one router being sold by that one particular vendor on Amazon then you would be looking at £120 for a proper router with the performance and features you need (like I said in my first post).