Broadband Hardware Trial 2015

[Jong1]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Compal or Arris.

FYI, as far as cable modems go Netgear are far closer to 'generic unheard of stuff' than Compal. We don't hear about these companies as we can't buy our own kit and attach it to the cable network.

Either way the UK isn't staying with Netgear. The ideal would be a common CPE and, indeed, CMTS platform, for the entire LG family.

The base hardware is fine - all the "big names" need to get their stuff made somewhere it's true.

What worries me more is the firmware side, in particular, but not exclusively, security. Not a problems for those of us who use our own routers but for many. The Superhub was, for a free router, not at all badly spec'd for its day, with guest network etc.. It would be a shame if things went backwards.

[qasdfdsaq]

Security is far MORE likely to get fixed when you are using a device shared across one of the world's largest cable brands instead of one individual unit used by one specific ISP in one country only.

[Jong1]

But my point was, while this manufacturer may know their stuff hardware wise they expect their customer to know theirs when it comes to the firmware. In that, I would would trust Netgear over Liberty any day. Liberty "cutting out the middle man" is most likely a cost saving exercise and it really would not surprise me if they have underestimated the skills they need in house to replicate their expertise. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[qasdfdsaq]

You are very very wrong.

[TAZMANUK]

I've heard its Arris by Virginmedia when trying to get my upgrade speed.

[Jong1]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

You are very very wrong.

I'm genuinely glad you are so optimistic. Cable companies do not have a great reputation in this regard.

[qasdfdsaq]

Nor do you.

[Jong1]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Nor do you.

Unnecessarily troll-like and not up to your usual standard here. The reputation of cable companies globally is public domain. Mine, not so much.

Originally Posted by Jong1

I'm genuinely glad you are so optimistic. Cable companies do not have a great reputation in this regard.

Netgear (et al) is no better, you can point the vulnerabilities to them but they lied link link

The SH2 uses open source code that is known to be vulnerable, that it has not been updated (Put the SH2 on "switch" mode and you'll see it)

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Jong1

But my point was, while this manufacturer may know their stuff hardware wise they expect their customer to know theirs when it comes to the firmware. In that, I would would trust Netgear over Liberty any day. Liberty "cutting out the middle man" is most likely a cost saving exercise and it really would not surprise me if they have underestimated the skills they need in house to replicate their expertise. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Cut out what middleman? Liberty have sourced from a variety of vendors including Compal and Arris in the past. They aren't cutting out anything, they are paying Compal / Arris to provide a CPE to them, they aren't writing the firmware and creating the hardware themselves.

Compal kit is used by Comhem to deliver a 500Mb service. It's been used across the world for a while. It even manages to handle guest WiFi without breaking the ability of some home devices to get IP addresses and/or producing massively unstable latency, which is more than can be said for the CPE Netgear supply VM.

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by Jong1

Mine, not so much.

Hence my point.

---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

It even manages to handle guest WiFi without breaking the ability of some home devices to get IP addresses and/or producing massively unstable latency, which is more than can be said for the CPE Netgear supply VM.

So that's why the trial was ermm... "withdrawn".

Can't say I'm surprised. The Superhub had major issues with L2 and L3 record keeping since day one.

[Jong1]

@Ignitionnet,

Of course this device is more up to date and I am glad you have confidence. You are clearly much closer to this new device than me. And, yes, to reply to Carlos, no one has a perfect or even glowing record in this area.

When I say middleman, I mean that Foxconn make iPhones, but I wouldn't necessarily want to buy a Foxconn designed phone. Similarly, there are companies who specialise in router technology (or laptops, or monitors or...) who outsource manufacturing to operations like this in Taiwan/China. Sure Compal have their own generic firmware, but is it world-class? is it well maintained? I say this as someone who has run an engineering group procuring from far eastern OEMs. Their quality can vary widely depending on who is driving them. And, although they may harbour long-term ambitions to be an "Apple" or "Samsung" themselves, they very often stay in the background because they know they don't have the skills in all these areas. Do we trust Liberty as a non-specialist, buying from also a non-specialst, to have the skills or focus to guarantee it is? Maybe we do, but I think it's a valid question.

I would still say that cable companies have historically:

- chosen cost over hardware specification, which has in the past led to them being late to the party with things like stateful packet inspection. Many routers now have technology that I doubt will make this version of the "SuperHub".
- chosen simplicity of installation and setup (partly, but of course not exclusively, driven by the desire to reduce support costs) over security. Over the years this has led to using easy to guess default passwords, same wifi default passwords on all devices etc.

Of course, going with a rebadged router for a respected home/small office brand, is no guarantee of anything better, especially if they are working to a very low price target. But I do believe that Virgin's decision to go with Netgear was seen pretty universally as a good thing at the time - when compared to what they and others had previously put out.

Time has moved on. I hope this great. I just wanted to say that a big company buying "millions" of devices, whilst it might be great for cost and could mean a lot of focus on customer security, it certainly doesn't guarantee it and history does not demonstrate that it is likely to be top of mind.

@qas...., my credentials in this area are irrelevant. Why don't we just stick to discussing the real issue. If the people close to this product are sure it's of world-class that's great. But I don't think it's unreasonable to want to discuss it

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by Jong1

I would still say that cable companies have historically:

- chosen cost over hardware specification, which has in the past led to them being late to the party with things like stateful packet inspection. Many routers now have technology that I doubt will make this version of the "SuperHub".
- chosen simplicity of installation and setup (partly, but of course not exclusively, driven by the desire to reduce support costs) over security. Over the years this has led to using easy to guess default passwords, same wifi default passwords on all devices etc.

Not in this decade. Both of those statements are provably false for several generations already.

[Jong1]

It was quite plain that these were historical examples. By definition we will not know future pitfalls until sometime down the road. You speak like router tech is now stable and mature, when the reality is there is still a massive investment both in improving the resilience and in finding and opening exploits. There is an on-going arms race out there.

[qasdfdsaq]

Stop trying to change your story. You were specifically talking about lack of features like SPI and default WiFi passwords. Neither of these applied to any VM router, ever.