General Does UBR change depending on package tier?

sniper007 · 18-09-2015, 11:27

Ages ago, I used to be on the virgin media middle tier broadband package which I think at the time may have been about 20mb. The top one was 50mb. When I got put onto the 50mb one, it stopped all my service problems with high utilization. I was told by an engineer that the top package at the time avoided all of these utilization issues because it meant you connected to a different part of the network and I think a different UBR?

I want to find out what UBR I am on, and if it would change if I dropped down a package. The reason I ask is due to the recent speed increases and price increases. I was considering dropping down a tier and then effectively being on the same speed after upgrade pocketing a saving, but I don't want to if it changes the service negatively.

Can anyone advise?

BenMcr · 18-09-2015, 12:01

It's been a while since I've looked into 20Mbit and below services but they've generally used different hardware at VM's end than 30Mbit and above.

Ignitionnet · 18-09-2015, 12:46

Your tier doesn't matter. If you're using a Superhub you're on the DOCSIS 3 network.

If you're using anything other than an ancient, ancient modem that should've been replaced an age ago you're also on the DOCSIS 3 network.

Ben - the 20Mb was moved to the DOCSIS 3 overlay network a while ago, and in many cases the 10Mb joined it not that long after with the rest moved subsequently.

By now there should be pretty much nothing on the DOCSIS 1.1 network bar STBs, with the odd old modem that can't handle DOCSIS 2.

Kushan · 18-09-2015, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniper007

Ages ago, I used to be on the virgin media middle tier broadband package which I think at the time may have been about 20mb. The top one was 50mb. When I got put onto the 50mb one, it stopped all my service problems with high utilization. I was told by an engineer that the top package at the time avoided all of these utilization issues because it meant you connected to a different part of the network and I think a different UBR?

I want to find out what UBR I am on, and if it would change if I dropped down a package. The reason I ask is due to the recent speed increases and price increases. I was considering dropping down a tier and then effectively being on the same speed after upgrade pocketing a saving, but I don't want to if it changes the service negatively.

Can anyone advise?

20Mbit and below was older DOCSIS2 technology. 50Mbit (at the time, later 30Mbit) and above uses DOCSIS3. So at that time, the engineer was right - the (at the time) top end 50Mbit service was the only DOCSIS3 service, so it was running on (effectively) different parts of the network so you probably did see a lot less congestion.

These days, Virgin's lowest tier is 50Mbit (soon to be 100Mbit) and it's all running on DOCSIS3, so changing tier won't change a thing. If you've got congestion on 50, you'll have congestion on 152.

Ignitionnet · 18-09-2015, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushan

20Mbit and below was older DOCSIS2 technology. 50Mbit (at the time, later 30Mbit) and above uses DOCSIS3. So at that time, the engineer was right - the (at the time) top end 50Mbit service was the only DOCSIS3 service, so it was running on (effectively) different parts of the network so you probably did see a lot less congestion.

Not so much. In some areas older tiers were moved to the DOCSIS 3 network shortly after it had completed rollout to ease congestion on the older platform.

VM have never had a DOCSIS 2 network as such.

Regardless as I said if you've a Superhub you're on the DOCSIS 3 network whether you have 152Mb or 'S' tier.

General Maximus · 19-09-2015, 05:45

yeah I remember that. VM loved to advertise the fact that docsis3 was exclusively for 50mbit when it very first came out and it was stm free for the first 6 months or so, it was great. Then they went back on everything they said, moved 20mbit users across and reintroduced stm.

sniper007 · 19-09-2015, 07:31

Thanks guys. So the UBR I connect to underground, will always be the same one now?

Tracing route to google.com [62.253.72.152]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 11 ms 9 ms 9 ms glfd-core-2a-xe-033-0.network.virginmedia.net [82.12.64.237]
4 11 ms 23 ms 11 ms brnt-bb-1a-ae17-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.174.89]
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 11 ms 11 ms 12 ms brnt-icdn-1-ae9-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.252.84.109]
7 10 ms 9 ms 10 ms 152.72-253-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk [62.253.72.152]

Trace complete.

Ignitionnet · 19-09-2015, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniper007

Thanks guys. So the UBR I connect to underground, will always be the same one now?

Until Virgin do a resegmentation yes. You're currently connected to Camberley CMTS 8, an Arris E6k.

---------- Post added at 12:01 ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Maximus

yeah I remember that. VM loved to advertise the fact that docsis3 was exclusively for 50mbit when it very first came out and it was stm free for the first 6 months or so, it was great. Then they went back on everything they said, moved 20mbit users across and reintroduced stm.

STM was introduced with the 10:1 upstream ratio change. Nothing to do with 20Mb being moved to DOCSIS 3. In my area they were moving pretty soon after the DOCSIS 3 overlay was made live and well before ATDMA upstreams.

Sadly a few too many people seeding 30-odd torrents at a time, which the network couldn't handle. The 100Mb/10Mb tier caused real problems and was never released to some areas.

qasdfdsaq · 19-09-2015, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Sadly a few too many people seeding 30-odd torrents at a time, which the network couldn't handle.

Meh, the number of torrents hardly matters. A single popular torrent can easily eat up 200Mbps+ of capacity if it were there, 300 torrents can average 200K.

It's usually the weekly US TV shows that cause the biggest problems. Two or three people seeding one could max out a whole node, and right around peak time too.

Quote:

The 100Mb/10Mb tier caused real problems and was never released to some areas.

Yeah, like mine.

alanbjames · 19-09-2015, 17:57

I know that Virgin use different makes of UBRs in some areas.

Is it possible to find out what make UBR your area is using?

General Maximus · 19-09-2015, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Meh, the number of torrents hardly matters. A single popular torrent can easily eat up 200Mbps+ of capacity if it were there, 300 torrents can average 200K.

thanks for sticking up for me. I know my tbb looks like a rainbow sometimes but my actual upstream bandwidth usage is minimal. As an example how, I am seeding 15 torrents and uploading at 68k. I don't upload for the data usage, I upload because the site I download from tracks how many active torrents you are seeding and awards you credits on an hourly basis for it regardless of whether you are sending data or not.

vm_tech · 19-09-2015, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanbjames

I know that Virgin use different makes of UBRs in some areas.

Is it possible to find out what make UBR your area is using?

If you're on docsis3, it will be either a Motorola (now Arris) BSR, or a Arris E6000

pip08456 · 19-09-2015, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Maximus

thanks for sticking up for me. I know my tbb looks like a rainbow sometimes but my actual upstream bandwidth usage is minimal. As an example how, I am seeding 15 torrents and uploading at 68k. I don't upload for the data usage, I upload because the site I download from tracks how many active torrents you are seeding and awards you credits on an hourly basis for it regardless of whether you are sending data or not.

Scenetime or TorrenTing?

Ignitionnet · 20-09-2015, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanbjames

Is it possible to find out what make UBR your area is using?

Yes, though it doesn't really matter.

---------- Post added at 01:17 ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by vm_tech

If you're on docsis3, it will be either a Motorola (now Arris) BSR, or a Arris E6000

Or a Cisco 10k.

---------- Post added at 01:30 ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 ----------

Wasn't an attack that needed defending, General. You pay your money and should use your service in any way you see fit

I apologise for the 30+ torrent seeding comment, I remembered why you might take it personally, though it was basically why 100/10 was closed to new orders and never released.

VM learned that selling over half an upstream channel/group to a single user was a bad idea and haven't repeated it since.

vm_tech · 20-09-2015, 08:28

Ahhh yea completely forgot about the 10k. We only have one in our franchise everything else is BSR at the moment. Or VXR for docsis1