Unstoppable migration?

Originally Posted by Osem

Perhaps they need to set one up then - they seem to have no problems investing overseas. Surely any rich country which wants to donate aid ought to create the necessary departments and other mechanisms to enable that to happen. This sort of thing's been going on in their back yard for years and they're still not properly equipped to help?

It's not only SA either.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rias-refugees/

Why do they the Saudis need a governmental overseas aid department when they are clearly being quite generous and managing perfectly well to help other countries without one ,maybe we could learn a few lessons and start to ditch some of the beurocracy that seems to infest our government .

Incidentally, this sort of thing has been going on in their back yard for years and they have been giving large quantities of aid for years , sometimes putting us to shame so anybody saying that Saudi Arabia does nothing is quite frankly talking out of their ass

[Osem]

Originally Posted by martyh

Why do they the Saudis need a governmental overseas aid department when they are clearly being quite generous and managing perfectly well to help other countries without one ,maybe we could learn a few lessons and start to ditch some of the beurocracy that seems to infest our government .

Incidentally, this sort of thing has been going on in their back yard for years and they have been giving large quantities of aid for years , sometimes putting us to shame so anybody saying that Saudi Arabia does nothing is quite frankly talking out of their ass

Oh I thought you were citing the absence of such a department as an excuse, hence my comment.

I think we're going to have to disagree about how perfectly well they're doing because from where I'm sitting they could do a whole lot more including reforming the various rules, even temporarily, which evidently induce refugees from their own region to prefer taking their chances elsewhere, even if that means risking their lives. Frankly anyone who thinks SA is doing its fair share is talking out of their ass...

[figgyburn]

Originally Posted by Taf

How can Bob Geldof afford to shelter 4 Syrian families after giving away all of his money to starving African children?

One of the richest countries in the world Saudi Arabia has done nothing to help the Syrian refugees

Typical. They'll cut off your hand but they won't lend one.....

Master plan.

1. Welcome all the Syrian refugees into Europe.

2, Give them all a job in the armed forces.

3. Once trained, send them on a mission to fight extremists,


Excellent idea.the vast majority of them are young males.thats what happened during ww2 lots of poles etc were bought to britain and then joined the r.a.f.etc and returned to fight for their countries.not leech and sit on their backsides and let others do the fighting.i doubt very much these cowards are up for the fight.
In Syria.

[Osem]

In the rush to welcome refugees and try to establish quota/numbers, I reckon a great many people are forgetting that a whole lot of those now being granted refugee status will, quite understandably be wanting to bring their families (mainly women, children & elderly) over in order to secure their safety. If these people are, as often claimed, stuck in war torn Syria and had to be left behind, how is anyone going to get them out? Alternatively, if they've been left behind in Turkey, for example, what mechanism will be used to extract these family members from all the others massing there? If they have no papers how are they going to be identified and is it really fair that simply because a relative made it to the EU illegally, they also get taken in whereas an equally desperate family who stayed together could be left behind.

Instead of making ourselves feel better in what I feel will turn out to be a short lived outpouring of sympathy and generosity in certain parts of Europe, someone needs to be considering the longer term ramifications of what's going on because if a whole lot of refugees are told their families are not going to be able to join them for whatever reason they're not going to be very happy about it. What are they planning to do if the decisions made in due course about where these people are going to go are not agreed to by the refugees? Is it going to be Hungary all over again with people forced to go where they don't want to, taken from their chosen Germany to some other place? Who's going to force refugees to go to a country they have no connection with, no desire to go to and where they're quite possible not going to be welcome? Whose going to force them to stay there?

Answers on a postcard to Jean-Claude Juncker please...

What our glorious leaders ought to have been doing over the years this crisis has been unfolding is thinking about the practical means by which they'd handle such entirely predictable and inevitable problems. It seems they've done very little thinking and even less planning, hence the awful chaos.

[Taf]

Our Turkish neighbour is returning to Turkey shortly to move his mother further west away from the "conflict zone". The fear is that ISIS will enter the country in large numbers, along with PKK Kurdish and it'll all end up with a mass exodus of Turks to the west of the country.

And maybe further.

There are a LOT of Turks.....

[figgyburn]

This is not going to end well for western civilization.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by figgyburn

This is not going to end well for western civilization.

I think you'll find that is the general idea and intention.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by martyh

Why do they the Saudis need a governmental overseas aid department when they are clearly being quite generous and managing perfectly well to help other countries without one ,maybe we could learn a few lessons and start to ditch some of the beurocracy that seems to infest our government .

Indeed. Oh wait.

We have provided more funds for Syria than the 'rich' gulf states combined. Our aid budget is dramatically larger than Saudi Arabia's. As we don't discriminate by religion and refuse to provide aid to states that don't share our religious ideals we also have a more complicated job of deciding where it should go.

Maybe we and the many other donor nations with a foreign overseas aid department do have a point and don't simply have them for fun and unnecessary bureaucracy?

---------- Post added at 13:49 ---------- Previous post was at 13:47 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

I think you'll find that is the general idea and intention.

Probably not given the abysmal manner in which nations are dealing with the issue.

We are portrayed as heartless, presumably for not allowing 'refugees' in en masse, a large proportion of which are purely economic migrants. The UK isn't that bad. Took in more refugees than Germany throughout the 2000s and are doing a fair bit to assist those in and around Syria. More than the rest of the EU combined, and certainly more than the super-wealthy gulf states.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...015.09.04_.pdf

[nomadking]

The general idea and intention of many who come here and those of "their kind" already here.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Taf

Our Turkish neighbour is returning to Turkey shortly to move his mother further west away from the "conflict zone". The fear is that ISIS will enter the country in large numbers, along with PKK Kurdish and it'll all end up with a mass exodus of Turks to the west of the country.

And maybe further.

There are a LOT of Turks.....

Never mind, if they become refugees we must take them in...

---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

The general idea and intention of many who come here and those of "their kind" already here.

Surely you're not suggesting that they may be in the slightest predisposed towards us admitting as many as possible and our enemies around the globe might also see some direct or indirect advantage to them in that end??...

Any such notion is clearly xenophobia and wicked scaremongering of the highest order.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Indeed. Oh wait.

We have provided more funds for Syria than the 'rich' gulf states combined. Our aid budget is dramatically larger than Saudi Arabia's. As we don't discriminate by religion and refuse to provide aid to states that don't share our religious ideals we also have a more complicated job of deciding where it should go.

Maybe we and the many other donor nations with a foreign overseas aid department do have a point and don't simply have them for fun and unnecessary bureaucracy?

My point was that the Gulf states are providing plenty of aid both financial and military contrary to some peoples belief that they are doing nothing or very little .The gulf states have so far this year donated $362,948,977 USD with a further $296,358,622USD pledged .The UK has donated $474,730,165 with a further $2,311,248 USD pledged as of 6th September 2015.Those figures do not include military aid to the Syrian rebels most of which comes from Saudi Arabia

[Ramrod]

When are the rich Arab Muslim countries of the region going to step up to the plate and take their fair quotas of refugees? To date the five richest Arab nations have not taken one refugee whilst in Europe we're expected to soak up millions.

Originally Posted by Osem

The whole thing is mad and whilst the Sheikhs are sitting on their arses, the Germans are going to see just how many people now decide that's the place to go and would quite like to bring their families too.

It's almost as if the Muslim countries want their fellow Muslims to flood into Western countries for some reason or other....I'll go and get my tin foil hat

[Osem]

2 caliphates for the price of one. Steal one get one free...

Anyway, the Austrians are already planning to end the special measure which have seen so many migrants travel there in recent days and Germany seems to be realising what it's let itself in for.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34169726

Austria says it is planning to phase out special measures that have allowed thousands of migrants to travel freely from Hungary to western Europe.

Chancellor Werner Faymann said Austria would remove the emergency measures for asylum seekers "step by step".

The easing of rules has meant thousands have been able to leave Hungary for Austria and Germany over the weekend.

Germany, where most of the migrants are headed, warned that its willingness to help "should not be overstretched".

I think they need to tell that to the migrants don't they?...

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by martyh

My point was that the Gulf states are providing plenty of aid both financial and military contrary to some peoples belief that they are doing nothing or very little .The gulf states have so far this year donated $362,948,977 USD with a further $296,358,622USD pledged .The UK has donated $474,730,165 with a further $2,311,248 USD pledged as of 6th September 2015.Those figures do not include military aid to the Syrian rebels most of which comes from Saudi Arabia

Yeah, that bit in bold is kinda the problem. The Syrian rebels are Islamists much as ISIL are, just the 'wrong kind' of Islamists for ISIL. Both of them are packing tons of guns from Russia and the gulf states.

Perhaps if Saudi Arabia stopped dicking around trying to promote Wahhabism and stopped funding terrorism things wouldn't be so messed up either in the Middle East or the rest of the world.

I have no interest in taking lessons in pretty much anything from a regressive, misogynistic, frankly backwards country that competes with Qatar to be the major paymaster for international terrorism, is the driving force behind Islamism in much of the world, and whose primary contribution to human rights recently has been an attempt to enact blasphemy laws throughout the world.

[Osem]

Just been listening to a BBC reporter confirming the presence of large numbers of young men of numerous nationalities trying to get across the Hungarian border. He spoke to some from Pakistan who freely confirmed their presence there as being in search of jobs in the EU. In the words of the reporter, 'riding on the coat tails' of the trail of refugees. I wonder if anyone will be applauding their arrival in town?