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Originally Posted by nomadking
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That was a reform,
tax credits began in 1999.
Ratio is everything for the simple reason that that's how the debt burden of economies are judged. I seem to have to repeat that over and over again.
Strangely enough nation states aren't households and shouldn't be run like them. It gets really boring have to say that over and over again too.
What do poor people do with money? Do they stash it in the Cayman Islands or do they, perhaps, spend it? There is a multiplier effect, which is why welfare cuts have had a pretty bad effect on the Greek economy. The IMF actually mentioned that that multiplier was worse than 1 in the case of Greece - they anticipated it being 0.5.
Sorry, again I'm bringing facts and economics into an attempt to bash welfare. I'll stop.
---------- Post added at 19:07 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------
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Originally Posted by Osem
Our children are not to blame for the mess we're in but they're going to have to pay for it their whole lives and work longer because of it. That's not fair either.
Many pensioners are really struggling, however, and it'd be wrong to expect them to pay more/receive less but a good number are doing very nicely thank you and although that may be down to their prudence, they can't really expect to be immune form the pain any more than our kids can. It may be unfair but blame is irrelevant because you can only take from those who have something.
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The poverty rate is higher among those of working age than pensioners now. Pensioners and those near retirement have done best out of all age demographics over the past 7 years.
A good number are doing very nicely and it's far less to do with prudence and far more to do with generous final salary pension schemes, subsidised by those currently working and far more generous than their schemes, alongside rampant property price inflation.
We have an entire generation that have had massively good fortune. It's not that hard to say 'Lucky them' rather than trying to make out they were somehow so much 'better' than following generations. I have no idea why people refuse to say that in many cases it's purely about when they were born, or that it's those who are working who are footing the bill in a variety of ways.
If we follow the kind of policies you seem to want our children won't be able to 'pay for it' because we'll have failed to provide them the education and infrastructure they need to be competitive in the future, and be leeching what wealth they do have from them in overpriced housing, which is nothing more than a transfer of wealth to the well housed from those who are not.
---------- Post added at 19:11 ---------- Previous post was at 19:07 ----------
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Originally Posted by Taf
Unfortunately the economic downturn has meant poor performance in Pensions Schemes worldwide, so there will be a big shortfall one day.
So they will try to reduce all other "benefits" so that there will be enough to pay the State, Civil Service and Local Government Service pensions that already exist. But one day those pensions will gobble up all we have to spend.
And then we could end up like Greece.
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The Labour and then Conservative governments, in concert with the Bank of England, basically fiddling the books to save the arses of insolvent banks has meant poor performance in pension schemes as these tend to hold large amounts of sovereign debt and the yield on that debt has been hugely depressed through quantitative easing and unjustifiably low interest rates.
That said, share prices are inflated through the roof. So if your plan is heavy on stocks you're good to go. Most aren't though, because at some point that bubble will brutally burst.