[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[heero_yuy]

SENIOR MPs from three different parties have joined forces to launch the campaign for Britain to leave the EU, The Sun can reveal.

The Tory, Labour and Ukip MPs’ new group is a major moment ahead of the landmark In/Out referendum, to be held in as little as 12 months’ time.

David Cameron suffered a major blow last night when three of his most senior MPs revealed they will lead the campaign to pull Britain out of the EU.

Owen Paterson, Bernard Jenkin and Steve Baker also accused the PM of selling Britain woefully short in his bid to renegotiate our membership.

His former Environment Secretary, the ex-shadow defence secretary and prominent backbencher are acting after becoming convinced their party leader is not asking for enough powers back from Brussels.

A total of seven senior Parliamentarians have formed the Exploratory Committee (ExCom) to put together the No campaign and call on Brits to back a Brexit in the landmark nationwide vote.

Also in the group is ex-Labour Home Office minister Kate Hoey, UKIP’s Douglas Carswell and veteran Labour MPs Graham Stringer and Kelvin Hopkins.

The Sun can also reveal the group have been meeting in secret for a month since the general election.

And the MPs have already won major cash funding promises for a No campaign

Paywall linky

The "NO" campaign getting into gear early as they know that Cameron won't get any serious changes to our relationship with the EU.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

Helle Kinnock's political career has finally reverted to type.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33171549



With her centre-left government kicked out of power, Denmark will now be ruled by a right-wing, really rather Eurosceptic coalition. Looks like Cameron is about to get his first renegotiation ally.

Let's hope so. There's clearly growing resentment throughout Europe and the refusal to address it is only going to make things worse and could lead to big trouble.

---------- Post added at 09:31 ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Paywall linky

The "NO" campaign getting into gear early as they know that Cameron won't get any serious changes to our relationship with the EU.

It's a measure of the denial within the EU's upper echelons that they continue to refuse any meaningful reform, preferring to carry on regardless. I really don't understand how they can be so blinkered and entrenched in spite of the obvious reality that the EU cannot continue in anything like its present form. I wish it wasn't the case but IMHO the EU is like a fuel laden supertanker heading towards rocks and the captain is insisting they move out of his way...

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Paywall linky

The "NO" campaign getting into gear early as they know that Cameron won't get any serious changes to our relationship with the EU.

Both the Yes campaigns and No campaigns have started organizing. I don't think either were going to wait. The people running these campaigns are committed to their cause irrespective of the result of any changes.

It's really a blow to Cameron until more senior figures break from the 'awaiting the result of the renegotiation line' and back the No campaign. The Electoral commission still has to decide which campaigns qualify as the 'official' ones as well.

[Osem]

It's going to be a blow for us all if we don't have accurate information on which to base the decision we're being asked to make. The stakes are huge and I'd hate to feel we'd been misled into staying or leaving but maybe that's inevitable.

Originally Posted by Osem

It's going to be a blow for us all if we don't have accurate information on which to base the decision we're being asked to make. The stakes are huge and I'd hate to feel we'd been misled into staying or leaving but maybe that's inevitable.

Same as anything else.

Who would you trust to give an unbiased view of the facts? Even if someone did attempt it then it would be labelled as biased by either side. If the facts are rock solid then they'll say they left out other facts.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

Same as anything else.

Who would you trust to give an unbiased view of the facts? Even if someone did attempt it then it would be labelled as biased by either side. If the facts are rock solid then they'll say they left out other facts.

Although not perfect by any mean, some organisation which isn't part of the EU would be a good start I'd have thought. I'd expect the pros and cons to be examined and explained, not just a presentation of one side or the other.

Originally Posted by Osem

Although not perfect by any mean, some organisation which isn't part of the EU would be a good start I'd have thought. I'd expect the pros and cons to be examined and explained, not just a presentation of one side or the other.

Say the BBC did it?

[Osem]

TBH I'd have more faith in them than if it came from a govt. minister because at least they attempt to explain both sides. Having said that I'd like to know that the data being presented came from independent sources and then listen to debate on the pros and cons.

As I've stated a few times before, I'd prefer us to be part of a reformed EU and we'll soon see whether the EU has any intention of changing anything. I fear that significant change will be impossible, however, so then it'd come down to a judgement as to where we'd be better off on the balance of probabilities as I see it.

I really do wish we could have enjoyed the best of Europe in a less stringent and formal manner without the obsession with ever closer union, a single currency and a single state.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Damien

Say the BBC did it?

NO WAY! The BBC is wedded to the EU and will be biased as hell all through the lead up to the referendum. Mark my words well.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

NO WAY! The BBC is wedded to the EU and will be biased as hell all through the lead up to the referendum. Mark my words well.

[Osem]

We're never going to get entirely unbiased information so the best we can hope for is something which at least presents both sides of the argument in a meaningful way - albeit with a possible bias one way or the other. It'll be up to use then to make of it what we can and decide which box to tick. Maybe the Greek tragedy will have concluded by then and the way forward (or not) for the EU will be clearer.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Chris

Helle Kinnock's political career has finally reverted to type.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33171549



With her centre-left government kicked out of power, Denmark will now be ruled by a right-wing, really rather Eurosceptic coalition. Looks like Cameron is about to get his first renegotiation ally.

Yep. I was chuffed about that result

[Osem]

Any result that removes a Kinnock from power is a good result I reckon...

[heero_yuy]

Former shadow cabinet minister Bernard Jenkin told SunNation: “If the PM wants people to trust him and the outcome of his negotiations he will be well advised to be as open and transparent as possible about the principles and substance that is being negotiated.

“What is the fundemental change in our relationship that he wants? He has not said – but should before disappearing behind closed doors.

“Secret negotiations will not win support for any deal, they just arouse suspicion.”

Linky

So a secret stitch up with Merkel and then emerging Chamberlain-like waving a piece of paper and claiming he's got a good deal.

[Osem]

Not sure that'll work. It's a big gamble...