Torys to cut housing benefit of young

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by nomadking

How many people NEED the mobility car. Times have moved on. Transport by taxis or buses is now easier. That's what the rest of us have to do.

They were assessed as needing the car under the DLA rules. In what is simply a money saving exercise, they changed the goalposts to make it harder under the new PIP rules.

Many disabled people have now lost their independence and contact with the outside world. Some (coupled with the Access To Work cuts and closure of Remploy) have had to give up their jobs and independence- meaning they have to claim out of work disability benefits!?!?

Not all disabled people are able to use public transport or taxis as you assume. Even those that can still face tremendous difficulties both in the practical aspects of things and taxi drivers trying to charge them more because of the extra costs and work involved because of their disability- even though this is unlawful.

[nashville]

There are lots of people still need their mobility car. Some people cannot walk to a bus stop even though it may be quite near. You may not see their pain but it is there just the same. How can they do shopping and carry bags of messages on and off a bus. You cannot pay taxi fares if you are on a basic pension. I know there are people who abuse the system but some disabled people would be housebound without their car.

[RichardCoulter]

Exactly. People often make assumptions about things that they know little about and as we all know assumptions are rarely true and never helpful.

[nomadking]

Then again, not ALL disabled are being denied motability cars.

Are all the changes made to buses and taxis not required?

Even with a car, people would have to move around quite a bit outside of it. Eg Try getting around pedestrianised areas in Towns/Cities. If somebody is able to get around a college, then they can manage buses.

Many Remploy places were closed under Labour and are done so on the suggestion of Disabled organisations. Why should somebody be given extra money simply because there is a Remploy company near them and that they can get into?

BTW I have disabilities which mean that I get higher rate mobility DLA, but I can't drive. In periods where I am totally or very(only get out once a week) housebound, even a car wouldn't be much use. Those periods are usually just a few days but can last a week, but the most recent one lasted more than 2 months. The adjustments made such as wheelchair ramps and tactile paving for blind people are a nightmare for me and probably lots of other people.

Only 3 people who use a wheelchair have had their car removed.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Then again, not ALL disabled are being denied motability cars.

Are all the changes made to buses and taxis not required?

Even with a car, people would have to move around quite a bit outside of it. Eg Try getting around pedestrianised areas in Towns/Cities. If somebody is able to get around a college, then they can manage buses.

Many Remploy places were closed under Labour and are done so on the suggestion of Disabled organisations. Why should somebody be given extra money simply because there is a Remploy company near them and that they can get into?

BTW I have disabilities which mean that I get higher rate mobility DLA, but I can't drive. In periods where I am totally or very(only get out once a week) housebound, even a car wouldn't be much use. Those periods are usually just a few days but can last a week, but the most recent one lasted more than 2 months. The adjustments made such as wheelchair ramps and tactile paving for blind people are a nightmare for me and probably lots of other people.

Only 3 people who use a wheelchair have had their car removed.

I never said that all disabled people were being denied Motability cars, I said that 1/3 of those transferring from DLA to PIP had lost their cars. In addition, I don't see what relevance the number of these having their car taken away that are wheelchair users is, nor do I understand your comment about someone living in close proximity to one of the remaining Remploy factories.

As I said before, i'm not interested in the party political side of things ie who was in Government when various Remploy factories were closed. For the record, the coalition closed the last batch of 33 factories in 2012 and the future of the remaining 20 remains uncertain.

Whether a disabled person could use a bus or not depends on many factors, some of which may vary day by day or even hour by hour. The regulations, however, do state that payment of the mobility component should only be awarded if there is 'enhanced facility for locomotion'.

Do you have a link to back up your statement that 1/3rd of claimants are being denied Motability under PIP, please?

[Jimmy-J]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Do you have a link to back up your statement that 1/3rd of claimants are being denied Motability under PIP, please?

If you can't find one, I doubt Richard can.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I never said that all disabled people were being denied Motability cars, I said that 1/3 of those transferring from DLA to PIP had lost their cars. In addition, I don't see what relevance the number of these having their car taken away that are wheelchair users is, nor do I understand your comment about someone living in close proximity to one of the remaining Remploy factories.

As I said before, i'm not interested in the party political side of things ie who was in Government when various Remploy factories were closed. For the record, the coalition closed the last batch of 33 factories in 2012 and the future of the remaining 20 remains uncertain.

Whether a disabled person could use a bus or not depends on many factors, some of which may vary day by day or even hour by hour. The regulations, however, do state that payment of the mobility component should only be awarded if there is 'enhanced facility for locomotion'.

You said "Not all disabled people are able to use public transport or taxis as you assume.". I was pointing out that implies that many are able to. More are able to than would have been 20 years or more ago. Changes have been made. Buses can "kneel" to ease getting on/off, areas set aside for wheelchairs with ramps to get on/off, passes for free travel including free door to door services(like free taxis).

The Remploy factories were closed at the suggestion of Disability organisations.
Link

For him, the move has seemed inevitable since the day, four years ago, when he visited Remploy's Birkenhead textile factory, which eventually closed last year. "For a variety of reasons, they had lost their contracts, and there were 30 or 40 people sitting there doing absolutely nothing," Matthews recalls. "They had no work to do and had not had any work for some time.
"Later, I went down the road to the Birkenhead branch of Remploy Employment Services (Res), which had not been open very long, and learned that they had placed more than 40 people in work in six months. That was quite a contrast: 40 people sitting around doing nothing in our factory against 40 people in productive jobs in the local economy. Which was the right model for supporting disabled people in the 21st century?"

The coalition government commissioned a report on the future of disability employment and training from a review team led by Liz Sayce, chief executive of disability charity Radar (now Disability Rights UK) and a known critic of sheltered factories. The report recommended winding down support for segregated employment, saying that each of the 2,800 Remploy factory workers was subsidised by an average £25,000 a year that could be better spent.

Matthews leaves Remploy at the end of the year when his contract finishes. A new chief executive will run Res, which has helped 50,000 disabled and disadvantaged people into work in the past four years. By March 2015, it is expected to be in private hands.

That's helping 5 times as many people who were "employed" at Remploy just in the space of 4 years. Seems the better system.

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Jimmy-J

If you can't find one, I doubt Richard can.

I have found one. The problem is that the estimates are based on PIP reassessments done so far. The reassessments that have been done are likely to be for decisions that were for a fixed term (eg 2 years). That will give a false impression of the numbers for the future .I don't think the reassessments of long term indefinite awards have started yet. IIRC Due to start later this year.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Do you have a link to back up your statement that 1/3rd of claimants are being denied Motability under PIP, please?

Here we are Hugh.

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-03-13/d...-need-it-most/

Thank you, den.

[richard s]

There was a family who lived near me with a disability vehicle a VW Sharan, this was for their daughter poor thing who has cerebral palsy (aged 8) she can walk short distances, they have two other older children (13 and 17) children. The parents are fit and able, the mother does part time and the father is I suppose the carer! he stays at home all day while the younger daughter goes to a special school, she is picked up from home by Taxi Bus and is away from 8 am to 4 pm, 5 days a week.

Question being why does the father not go to work, he is fit and able enough and is in his mid to late thirties.

There are people who deserve mobility cars and there are those who do not. I get peeded off paying in my tax's to people who do not.

Originally Posted by richard s

There was a family who lived near me with a disability vehicle a VW Sharan, this was for their daughter poor thing who has cerebral palsy (aged 8) she can walk short distances, they have two other older children (13 and 17) children. The parents are fit and able, the mother does part time and the father is I suppose the carer! he stays at home all day while the younger daughter goes to a special school, she is picked up from home by Taxi Bus and is away from 8 am to 4 pm, 5 days a week.

Question being why does the father not go to work, he is fit and able enough and is in his mid to late thirties.

There are people who deserve mobility cars and there are those who do not. I get peeded off paying in my tax's to people who do not.

Caring for a child with CP generates a lot of extra housework. If she is getting DLA then that is there to allow a carer - presumably, in this case, her dad - to spend the extra time at home, rather than going out to earn a crust. He will have a genuine need to be home, and we're he to have to go out to earn money instead of being funded by the State, family life would be a lot tougher than it already is.

Believe me, I know a family with a daughter of similar age who has CP, and another family with a daughter in her teens whose disability is profound and whose needs are complex.

In both cases, the daytime when the child is out of the house is most definitely *not* time on the sofa in front of Jeremy Kyle.

[richard s]

I think this bloke does lay about unfortunately

[RichardCoulter]

If his daughter is on the middle or high rate care component of DLA or PIP at either of the only two rates now available with the new benefit and he cares for his daughter for 35 hours a week or more, he is entitled to claim Carers Allowance of £61.35 per week.

Do bear in mind though:

- If he were to refuse to look after his daughter, it would cost the state much, much more.

- Someone who is out of work gets £72.40 a week on Jobseekers Allowance as opposed to £61.35 for being a carer.

- Carers Allowance is taxable and taken into account in full for the purposes of calculating means tested benefits, which erodes even this modest amount.

- Even if he were to do the bare minimum number of hours required to receive Carers Allowance (35) he is still receiving only £1.75 an hour. The more time he spends on caring activities, the more this hourly rate is further eroded. When you take into account that the National Minimum wage is £6.50, we don't seem to be getting a bad deal as taxpayers do we?

You have no way of of knowing what he does in the privacy of his own home, so should not really be making assumptions.

Carers help this country a tremendous amount by working for a pittance or even for free; the only safe assumption that we can make is that as a country we take advantage of them.

[Kursk]

How does all this motability lark work then?

I (and I suspect we all probably) know a bloke who has bought a new 'motability' car that cost just under £16k. There are much cheaper cars on the market that will serve his motability. He has a new car that exceeds his real need every couple of years which is a luxury many working people couldn't hope to afford.

There's an obvious saving to be made without affecting motability isn't there?