Cameron: No means testing for pensioner benefits

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Damien

I am unhappy that the unequal application of benefit cuts to disproportionately target the young.

not to worry by the time you get to my age you'll have a different opinion

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by rhyds

It all boils down to one simple fact.

The over 65s vote.

The under 25s don't.

This.

Now the under 25s, indeed many under 35s and some over that, need to stop complaining and get working to pay their boomer landlords' buy-to-let mortgages, taxes for retiree welfare and healthcare, and more for goods and services to help plug deficits in pension schemes they couldn't dream of being members of.

---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

not to worry by the time you get to my age you'll have a different opinion

Hopefully he will have more empathy and integrity than that.

---------- Post added at 18:56 ---------- Previous post was at 18:54 ----------

Originally Posted by Kursk

The juxtaposition seems irrelevant unless you feel the Cons are robbing Peter to pay Paul?

There's a total welfare spending cap, which excludes pensions and some unemployment benefits, so some element of robbing Peter to pay Paul with the rest is certainly going to happen.

---------- Post added at 18:58 ---------- Previous post was at 18:56 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

I think it's hard to take the Tories seriously.

Fixed that for you Damien.

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 18:58 ----------

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Why should pensioners be means tested? They paid into the pot all their lives on the understanding that they would get X amount paid back to them when they retired. It would be unfair to now move the goalposts.
Young people on the other hand, haven't been promised the whole 'cradle to grave' thing

So you'd be against, say, the pension age going up for example, or indeed any kind of welfare cuts?

I mean if it's unfair to move the goal posts for one group surely it's only reasonable that it's unfair to move them for any others? We've all been promised things by politicians after all, then either they haven't delivered them or a subsequent government have taken them away.

There is zero moral case to be made for treating any age groups differently. The manner in which the coalition have conducted themselves is purely about cynical politics - pensioners vote in large numbers and overwhelmingly vote Tory.

This is a problem for the young - they need to vote or they'll get trodden on.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by rhyds

It all boils down to one simple fact.

The over 65s vote.

The under 25s don't.

Now let me think.....what simple but effective remedy can there be to this quandary?

[rhyds]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Now let me think.....what simple but effective remedy can there be to this quandary?

Lets ask Russell Brand...

Young people don't vote absolutely right and why don't they it's a real puzzle isn't it I mean we have such a good political system and such good people as politicians not as though politics is tainted in anyway with many not just the young feeling disenfranchised and that there is no one deserving of their vote. The problem of young people not voting like many issues is not new and also like many other issues politicians won't resolve it because they have no gaurantee it will benefit them.

[Kursk]

Call me old fashioned but a political system tainted by a few is still better than anarchy. I think young people should be encouraged to participate in shaping their future; there has, after all, been bleaker times.

Put yourself in the position of the 18-25 age group right now they are going to be working longer then any previous generation little to no job security and wages not guaranteed and the only time politicians mention you is when they are slamming you not much incentive to engage is it. I'm not gonna be around to claim a pension but worry for my kids and the sort of country they will be adults in and bring children into and the truth is this country is becoming an unpleasant place to be if your not at the top. No one is expecting or asking for an easy ride just the same ride as their parents and grandparents but will be paying for the mistakes and selfishness of previous generations all the time being lectured.

[rhyds]

The problem is that young people have been told that the way to change anything is to whinge about it on the internet rather than actually doing something productive about their situation.

Having no one to vote for is no excuse. There are probably enough willing, passionate youngsters to stand in a fair number of seats on councils and as MPs. Instead, they've gone for the "feck 'em all" attitude because no party wants to give them everything on a plate.

Originally Posted by rhyds

The problem is that young people have been told that the way to change anything is to whinge about it on the internet rather than actually doing something productive about their situation.

This.

Missus is subscribed to 38 Degrees, a petitioning website, and she gets pompous emails from them at least twice a week, pushing their latest cause célèbre, always filled with self-important lines like "it's vital that 38 degrees members act now ...". Of course "acting" essentially comes down to sticking their names and email addresses on yet another petition. And as the Internet has made mega-petitions easier to compile, so the attention threshold whenever a petition is presented to el gov gets higher and higher.

We saw something of this in Scotland last year. The not inconsiderable movement of twentysomethings who were such a visible part of the Yes campaign seemed genuinely to think that they were entitled to win it, just because their social media campaign was so visible and so noisy. Many of them seemed genuinely astounded when the result was No. It was as if they had no idea that there are large numbers of people who don't bang on on social media, but who quietly come out and vote when asked.

[rhyds]

That's pretty much it Chris. I can see how youngsters are annoyed, the promised cushy jobs after three years dossing about on a meeja studies/aromatherapy degree haven't materialised, and they're looking for someone to blame. However, sharing facebook pictures isn't really going to do anything to change that.

[Kursk]

Both Chris and rhyds make good points RizzyKing but I do understand your natural concern for your children. Kids are more resilient that you think; although their 'lot' is different to ours it does not mean they are doomed. Remember too they have things that we covet - energy, imagination, youth....I'm already starting to feel poorer than them!

For their sake (and yours!) focus on the good things we have in the UK such as health care, freedom and supportive parents. The World is full of kids who don't have any of that.

We don't know what the future holds but I'm sure your kids could be part of the solution not part of the problem but it is up to them.

Sorry, I seem to be suffering from a cliché day .

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by rhyds

That's pretty much it Chris. I can see how youngsters are annoyed, the promised cushy jobs after three years dossing about on a meeja studies/aromatherapy degree haven't materialised, and they're looking for someone to blame. However, sharing facebook pictures isn't really going to do anything to change that.

Wonder what they did before that, back before there were no cushy jobs after three years dossing on a crap degree taken at the insistance of Tony Blair and there was no Facebook or whatever to complain on.

This is hardly a new phenomenon.

If you don't believe or have faith in a system your not going to take part in it and as for being candidates themselves as independents they would lose their deposits due in no small part to the attitudes towards them seen on here. They are not going to join mainstream parties because of the disenfranchisement they feel catch 22 for many of them and if they did stand on their own and knocked on the doors of some you it wouldn't be a case of you thinking "good for them trying to improve things" it's more likely to be "this kid is trying to tell me".

We seem to have a situation in the UK right now of if you've made it to a certain social point or have passed a certain age pull up the ladder and sod the rest. Yes people have worked hard mainly to get where they are but factors were in play in the past that are not now it's a different more difficult world for the kids coming up. The decline in society and it's attitudes are there and getting worse fed and encouraged by our current bunch of politicians and the system they have created which is only interested in getting sections of society attacking each other while they look after themselves.

Is it really so bad to expect and want better from the politicians for them to actually do what is best for the country and its people and when did we the public start to let them get away with doing anything less seems to me some people are more interested in defending the system they believe has benefitted them then demanding that it, us and society get better not just fiscally solvent. Oh and my kids being part of the solution rather then the problem they would but are generally too tired after all of them working 50+ hours a week.

[Kursk]

You're entitled to a good old moan as are we all. But what is to be done then? I can't imagine a super rich benefactor coming to the rescue and would that be the answer anyway?

Who knows - perhaps a life without the burden of property and material goods will be more fulfilling? Perhaps kids don't want the commitment that we define as desirable.

With respect, you're pretty adept at identifying the negative, what can be done positively to redress the balance? If you want to change the system it's no good rejecting and ignoring it.

I do empathise with some of what you say but it comes back to the people who want the change, making it happen.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Iirc the saving from scrapping housing benefit for under 25's wasn't huge in context and the bedroom tax saving were swallowed up by presumably related fraud and error in the housing benefit system going up three times, negligible savings or costs didn't matter then so why doesn't Dave just tell the truth about why he is terrified of upsetting the old folk.

Just as advisors to the Government predicted, these reforms have not only resulted in human misery as, for example, the eviction of disabled people from their (often adapted for them at public expense) homes gathers pace- but their welfare reforms actually cost more.

The first Welsh eviction of a woman (who has had two spinal prolapses and suffers from sciatica of the leg) looks immediately imminent. After starting to pay off her arrears by cutting down on food and turning down her heating, she has been told to pay the remaining £720 or get out.

How on earth has this been allowed to happen?

https://speye.wordpress.com/2015/02/...a-penny-saved/