Who is Muhammad (peace be upon him)

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by truthspeaker

A man so great, that 1400 years later they're still trying to assassinate his character yet his status only rises.

imo, it's not mohammeds character that we're trying to assassinate, merely the characters of his more rabid, deranged followers........of which there seem to be many!

[Ignitionnet]

Islam is astonishingly insecure about its origins, which speaks volumes. Historians constantly delve into the origins of Christianity and it's been extensively researched and critiqued on many levels. A historian dares to question Islam and receives death threats.

Makes you wonder how many Muslims do actually believe in their religion with complete confidence and faith if they are so insecure that the merest questioning of the historical accuracy of their scripture makes them start handing out threats.

Most Christians and indeed followers of every other major religion accept that their scripture isn't, for want of a better word, gospel, but is largely parable. The sooner Islam, the youngest of the major religions it should be noted, joins the grown ups, the better.

Right now it comes across as a petulant, insecure teenager.

As far as it having run for 1400 years goes, well, so what?

Look at Joseph Smith.

Much more reliable historical information, wanted fraudster, people adhere to his religion and it's growing pretty rapidly.

Or even more recent L Ron Hubbard. Founds a religion basically for a bet, it's worldwide, influential, and growing.

Some people appear willing to believe any old bollocks. Islam happened to have had a millennium and a bit head start and is more aggressively expansionist.

[Stop It]

Originally Posted by alferret

There is enough room on this planet to accommodate all religions, what I don't get is why Islam is the only religion that uses threats of death to those that don't want to follow.
Surely it's better to live a life that you want to lead rather than being forced/radicalised into following.
There are enough states in the middle East to accommodate all Muslims who don't want to adhere to the policies of the non Muslim countries they live in, so my advice is sod off to somewhere that practice's Islam and stop spreading crap. Don't want to see it, hear about it or have any bloody interest in it.

Well, there was always the Inquisition. What happened to those who didn't believe (In Christianity that time)? Death, or life imprisonment. Funny, how that happened around 12-1400 years after Christianity started too.

Islam appears to be going through a similar phase that Christianity did. Does it make it any more bad? Probably not, does it show that religions are more similar to each other than they would ever care to admit and thus should bloody well get along and stop trying to kill each other for not being part of theirs? Probably.

Religion should be able to stand up to scrutiny, and yes, ridicule. If Either causes uproar, then there's some major insecurity in there. As someone who enjoys the film "The Life of Brian" and know that was either threatened with, or banned in places, I know that even now Christianity isn't above getting arsey about satire too.

Originally Posted by Stop It

Islam appears to be going through a similar phase that Christianity did. Does it make it any more bad? Probably not, does it show that religions are more similar to each other than they would ever care to admit and thus should bloody well get along and stop trying to kill each other for not being part of theirs? Probably.

What it shows is, feudal, medieval societies use religion as a tool to ensure conformity and subservience. What it doesn't show is whether any particular religion is a reflection of absolute truth, or a useful philosophy of life, or anything of that kind.

In fact in Europe, it was the excesses of the political elites and their fondness for using Christianity as a means of control that helped spark the Reformation, which consisted of people pointing out that the Bible didn't support the things that were being done by both Church and State.

The Reformation and the rise of Protestantism has of course given people further excuses to kill each other. Nevertheless they do so in spite of what is written in the book they claim to live by, not because of it.

[Osem]

What does the great Mohammed say about the innocent people who're being murdered in his name? What does he say about those Muslims (the vast majority) who don't go around murdering those who don't share their faith? Does he feel they're worse than the rest or better?

Not that I'm expecting any sort of cogent answer from the OP...

[dilli-theclaw]

Originally Posted by Osem

What does the great Mohammed say about the innocent people who're being murdered in his name? What does he say about those Muslims (the vast majority) who don't go around murdering those who don't share their faith? Does he feel they're worse than the rest or better?

Not that I'm expecting any sort of cogent answer from the OP...

But you may be 'lucky' and get some very deluded PM's like I did

[Osem]

Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw

But you may be 'lucky' and get some very deluded PM's like I did

Are you enlightened or converted as a result?

[dilli-theclaw]

Originally Posted by Osem

Are you enlightened or converted as a result?

Luckily I managed to resist being converted but they were certainly enlightening!

[truthspeaker]

Michael H.Hart, who is Jewish non-muslim wrote a book from Adam all the way to end times.
he wrote a book.
The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History is a 1978 book by Michael H. Hart,
It is a ranking of the 100 people who, according to Hart, most influenced human history.

The first person on Hart's list is the Prophet of Islam Muhammad, and puts 3rd place Jesus
Hart decided to choose Muhammad over Jesus or Moses

Michael H. Hart put Muhammad No. 1 on his list and his Jesus Christ (pbuh) No. 3. Why?
William McNeill considers Muhammad as worthy of honour in his list of the first three names of his. Why?
James Gavin puts Muhammad (pbuh) before Christ (pbuh). Why?
James Masserman adjudges Muhammad (pbuh) No. 1 and his own hero Moses (pbuh) a close second. Why?

non muslim say about Muhammad Peace be upon him.
1. "MUHUMMAD WAS THE SOUL OF KINDNESS, AND HIS INFLUENCE WAS FELT AND NEVER FORGOTTEN BY THOSE AROUND HIM." A Hindu scholar - Diwan Chand Sharma in his "The Prophets of the East," Calcutta 1935, p. 122.

2. "FOUR YEARS AFTER THE DEATH OF JUSTINIAN, A.D. 569, WAS BORN AT MAKKAH, IN ARABIA THE MAN WHO, OF ALL MEN EXERCISED THE GREATEST INFLUENCE UPON THE HUMAN RACE ... MOHAMMED ..." John William Draper, M.D., LLD., in his "A History of the lntellectual Development of Europe",- London 1875.

3. "I DOUBT WHETHER ANY MAN WHOSE EXTERNAL CONDITIONS CHANGED SO MUCH EVER CHANGED HIMSELF LESS TO MEET THEM." R. V. C. Bodley in "The Messenger,"- London 1946, p.9.

4. "I HAVE STUDIED HIM - THE WONDERFUL MAN - AND IN MY OPINION FAR FROM BEING AN ANTI-CHRIST, HE MUST BE CALLED THE SAVIOUR OF HUMANITY." George Bernard Shaw, in "The Genuine Islam,- Vol. 1, No. 81936.

5. "BY A FORTUNE ABSOLUTELY UNIQUE IN HISTORY, MOHAMMED IS A THREEFOLD FOUNDER OF A NATION, OF AN EMPIRE, AND OF A RELIGION." R. Bosworth-Smith in "Mohammed and Mohammedanism".- 1946.

6. "MOHAMMED WAS THE MOST SUCCESSFUL OF ALL RELIGIOUS PERSONALITIES." Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th Edition

Islam don't tell Muslim to kill innocent people.

which kill innocent people, are committing a major sin.
we also follow Jesus more then Christians, do. and Muslim respect Jesus and all Prophets before him.
read your gospel
in the bible Jesus fell on his face and prayed. when you see muslim doing the same thing also

Originally Posted by truthspeaker

Michael H.Hart, who is Jewish non-muslim wrote a book from Adam all the way to end times.
he wrote a book.
The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History is a 1978 book by Michael H. Hart,
It is a ranking of the 100 people who, according to Hart, most influenced human history.

The first person on Hart's list is the Prophet of Islam Muhammad, 2nd his Jesus
Hart decided to choose Muhammad over Jesus or Moses

So go and worship Michael H Hart (peas be upon him).

[Osem]

Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw

Luckily I managed to resist being converted but they were certainly enlightening!

What do you think GCHQ made of them?

[truthspeaker]

And about Freedom of Speech

We want to know the boundaries and limits to the term "Freedom of Speech" in the UK.

When Jews are ridiculed, it's Anti-semitism. When ethnic minorities are targeted, it's racism.
When Islam is defamed, it's "Freedom of Speech?
We call on the British Government to draw the lines for us, what's acceptable, what's not?
We want a common law for ALL.
We want to detach ourselves from these never-ending Double-standards.

[richard s]

You are making comments and facts on here right now!... this is called freedom of speech... if ISIL were here in control you would probably be looking up at the sky minus your body for not having their permission for talking/communicating with infidels.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by truthspeaker

And about Freedom of Speech

We want to know the boundaries and limits to the term "Freedom of Speech" in the UK.

When Jews are ridiculed, it's Anti-semitism. When ethnic minorities are targeted, it's racism.
When Islam is defamed, it's "Freedom of Speech?
We call on the British Government to draw the lines for us, what's acceptable, what's not?
We want a common law for ALL.
We want to detach ourselves from these never-ending Double-standards.

If you're going to quote someone else's words why not be decent enough to say so and post a link to the source?

If you want to live in a society in which Islam has the all protections you insist it deserves and doesn't have here why not go and live in one? Oddly, despite the UK being so very hostile apparently, you choose to remain here and complain that everything isn't quite how you'd like it. That's why some Jews are now going to Israel isn't it? They feel they're not well enough protected by the law in places like France and the UK.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by truthspeaker

And about Freedom of Speech

We want to know the boundaries and limits to the term "Freedom of Speech" in the UK.

When Jews are ridiculed, it's Anti-semitism. When ethnic minorities are targeted, it's racism.
When Islam is defamed, it's "Freedom of Speech?
We call on the British Government to draw the lines for us, what's acceptable, what's not?
We want a common law for ALL.
We want to detach ourselves from these never-ending Double-standards.

You have a common law, there are no double standards - every religion is free to be criticised. Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity and, yes, Islam. Jews are a race, racism can only be directed towards a race. Islam isn't a race, more of a political ideology blended with a religion.

If you don't like that we have no blasphemy law regarding your Prophet feel free to emmigrate somewhere there is one. 95% of the UK population don't follow Islam, and apart from some useful idiots the bulk of that 95% couldn't care less how 'offended' you are.

If your Prophet and Allah are all holy and powerful I'm sure they won't be at all bothered by the actions of cartoonists, news outlets, or whatever.

Or are they so petty minded that they take offence at the actions of a mortal whose life is over in the blink of an eye in the grand scheme and who, if scripture is to be believed, can be tormented for all eternity in the afterlife?

If they are you may want to consider exactly what you think is so great about them.

I find your views of freedom of speech offensive as you've no idea what you're talking about. Boohoo, I'm going to run off crying as someone offended me.

http://tellmamauk.org/ in case you want to report Islamophobia and racism.

For what it's worth I'm not Islamophobic, I'm moronophobic and avowedly secular. I couldn't care less what religion you are, act like a tool and I'll happily describe you as one.

Incidentally, George Bernard Shaw never wrote anything called 'The Genuine Islam' and such a book does not appear to exist. Do try to be somewhat more thorough in your research than going to the clearly unbiased website Prophet of Islam.

EDIT: Ah I see where this came from, too.

https://www.facebook.com/MissionDawa...53113153334739

Linking to this petition:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/73584

Well I can help with this, no need for government intervention.

We want a legal, binding definition of the term: "Freedom of Speech and Expression". What are the boundaries? What is right, what is wrong? What will get me arrested, what is my right?

There are a whole bunch of existing laws dealing with exactly this, hence why racist and hate speech are illegal. Don't break the existing laws you're exercising reasonable right to freedom of speech.

Citing an example: If drawing defaming cartoons of the Prophet of Islam is considered Freedom of expression, not Islamophobia, then what are the boundaries for "Freedom of Speech", which are especially needed for publishers and journalists. How much defamation can be accepted?

Well, also clearly stated in law - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law

Another example: the Hash-tag #KillAllMuslims was trending on twitter, but was again considered to be "Freedom of Speech". I would have considered that 'inciting genocide'.

Indeed - that is illegal for a couple of reasons.

Why is there so much debate about what constitutes "Freedom of Speech"?

The Government must work to remove these doubts! What are the definitions? That's all we want to know

The definitions are quite clear and none of them protect Islam from criticism. Cry more.

EDIT: Or of course have a bunch of violent extremists enabled by millions of tacit supporters (this isn't Islamophobia either - numerous surveys have indicated that if anything my saying 'millions' is understatement) and cause media outlets to self-censor out of concern for the safety of their staff.

Who'd have thought indoctrinating believers into placing the Prophet, dead 1400 years, above the value of the closest human lives to them, let alone the lives of others, alongside considering non-believers animals only tolerated if they pay a tax for their non-belief would encourage radicalisation if the Prophet were besmirched?