Osborne's 'Pensioner bonds' - bribing OAPs with everyone else's money

I've been voting for 44 years..unfortunately in all that time it's made no difference because those around me haven't wanted a change.I still go out and vote though despite the increasing irritation with those who won't exercise their right.I even vote when I don't really respect any of those who are standing for election.

[bonzoe]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Any politician that tries bribing me for my vote will be sent away with a fly in their ear

Does that mean that you will not be voting?

Don't all politicians say what they believe people want to hear in order to get their votes.

And don't forget, a lot of pensioners pay tax, so the bribe is not at everyone else's expense as you try to claim.

But, beware, you may get what you wish for, so start saving!!

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:56 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I've been voting for 44 years..unfortunately in all that time it's made no difference because those around me haven't wanted a change.I still go out and vote though despite the increasing irritation with those who won't exercise their right.I even vote when I don't really respect any of those who are standing for election.

I suspect a lot of voters feel the same way.

[techguyone]

They should do a 'none of the above' box, so politicians know that people are voting - just not for them, rather than simply not turning up, so its not recorded and assumed to be a 'can't be bothered' voter.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by bonzoe

Does that mean that you will not be voting?

Don't all politicians say what they believe people want to hear in order to get their votes.

And don't forget, a lot of pensioners pay tax, so the bribe is not at everyone else's expense as you try to claim.

But, beware, you may get what you wish for, so start saving!!

I must be missing the bribes I've received over this Parliament, but I've have a look back through. From what I can see my income tax bill has barely budged, my tax bill as a whole has gone up due to indirect taxation. I receive no payments from the state, receive no subsidies for anything I do.

Regrettably I'm a very boring chap who is paying at least £30k a year, net of all services received both by myself and my daughter, to the government.

The idea that because a lot of pensioners pay tax they aren't getting bribed with other people's money as a cohort is ridiculous. Everyone right down to kids when they purchase some snacks pay indirect taxes. As would be expected the pensioner cohort as a whole are big net recipients of funds. The patterns of receipt from state funds across ages are pretty well established.

I do see your point though - the thread title should've been 'Yet another bribe for OAPs, almost entirely with other people's money'.

I am quite sure I'll get exactly that - by the time I retire the population will be too old, and there won't be enough money to cover the kind of welfare and pensions, public and private, that would be taken for granted now.

The flat rate pension recently introduced ensures that one less thing that would've compensated me for net contributions to the tax man's coffers won't happen. That added to the almost entirely non-contributory nature of the UK's benefit system and the various methods in which the tax and welfare systems punish success make it unsurprising that so much of the UK's population are net recipients.

So if you could point out these bribes I'm apparently getting that'd be appreciated. The past 5 years for me appear to have been 'Take, take, take' and there's nothing that's been announced that indicates the next 5 will be any different.

---------- Post added at 09:57 ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 ----------

Originally Posted by techguyone

They should do a 'none of the above' box, so politicians know that people are voting - just not for them, rather than simply not turning up, so its not recorded and assumed to be a 'can't be bothered' voter.

They do - spoiled ballots.

I would be very happy with compulsory voting so long as the ability to spoil the ballot were made clear.

Well I've not been bribed either..but when I do get the OAP in May I might just start doing it..after all I've been given BA in the way of bribes from any political since I started voting.Now I'm heading into a fixed income I might just do it.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Regrettably I'm a very boring chap who is paying at least £30k a year, net of all services received both by myself and my daughter, to the government.

So, you're quite well off then really?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Kursk

So, you're quite well off then really?

Compared to most. Hence jealousy not being my motivation.

I am, quite literally, alright, Jack.

[bonzoe]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

The idea that because a lot of pensioners pay tax they aren't getting bribed with other people's money as a cohort is ridiculous.

I didn't say that, it was you who chose to talk about "bribes" and pensioners, to the exclusion of all others who are being "bribed".

---------- Post added at 19:25 ---------- Previous post was at 19:23 ----------

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Compared to most. Hence jealousy not being my motivation.

I am, quite literally, alright, Jack.

Nice to know, so it's OK to attack others in a less fortunate position?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by bonzoe

I didn't say that, it was you who chose to talk about "bribes" and pensioners, to the exclusion of all others who are being "bribed".

Well, yes, I was discussing a specific policy which was one of the more naked acts of bribery of recent times.

Have a look at a graph I posted earlier. Do compare the under-30s and the over-65s.

Then let's think about the various other wheezes to buy the grey vote.

They have done pretty well, thank you very much, from this Parliament. The numbers speak for themselves. In a time of austerity when cutbacks are being made in various areas the group most protected by direct government cuts has been them.

This is very well documented. Your call if you want to ignore it.

---------- Post added at 19:29 ---------- Previous post was at 19:28 ----------

Originally Posted by bonzoe

Nice to know, so it's OK to attack others in a less fortunate position?

Less fortunate as in having £20,000 to invest?

Try actually reading the thread rather than getting defensive. My vitriol is directed towards largely politicians.

If you have nothing factual to add to the discussion do feel free to add nothing.

EDIT: Just to point out your comment is ridiculous. Many of my comments regard the poor treatment of the under 30s. To say I'm attacking those in a less fortunate position is nonsense.

---------- Post added at 19:33 ---------- Previous post was at 19:29 ----------

I'm so nice I'll even save you some time.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35753234-post38.html

Should be a good start. Look at the % change in disposable income for the 75+ age group, and indeed 65+.

Then look at under-30s.

Home ownership - every cohort bar one seeing their rate dropping, in the case of those under 25 dramatically and those under 35 2nd largest drop, while private tenants passed social ones recently. Over the longer term only 2 demographics saw their rates rise in the 20 year period, the over-55s and over-65s.

Try finding some facts to tell me why it's so unfair that I am annoyed with the contrasting treatment of the two extreme groups, the over 65s and the under 30s and I'll happily change my views.

Point of information - it's not £20k per year, it's £20k in total, with £10k in the 1 year bond, and £10k (maximum) in the 3 year bond.

And also, the comment on your linked stat above

For those aged 25 to 34, the percentage of owner occupiers declined from 58 per cent in 2001 to 40 per cent in 2011. This suggests a decline in first time home buyers, who would usually be within this age group.

It could also suggest a rise in people in that age group blowing their disposable income on other things, like most of the ones in Leeds you can see in trendy bars at the top of Briggate or around the Trinity Arcade/Calls Lane/Corn Exchange on a Thursday/Friday/Saturday night...

Some interesting stats here - http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/57...ts-and-graphs/

I found this one informative, as it reflects my own experiences..



So perhaps we didn't have it as easy as is stated, with mortgage payments over 50% of salary....

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Point of information - it's not £20k per year, it's £20k in total, with £10k in the 1 year bond, and £10k (maximum) in the 3 year bond.

Ah thank you Hugh. My mistake. Amended.

See how that works, bonzoe? I'm given a factual statement that shows I'm incorrect, I accept it and amend accordingly. Please feel free to repeat Hugh's correction with some facts of your own

[Osem]

I must say I don't know any pensioners who have £20k to invest but I suspect they'll be quite a few former politicians who will fit into that category thanks to their rather generous perks and pensions.

Anyway as beneficiaries of deliberate govt. policy go, I'd say borrowers have had some very favourable treatment at the expense of savers. The savings they've made on their mortgages etc. will be far in excess of anything the pensioners are now entitled to via this scheme.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Osem

Anyway as beneficiaries of deliberate govt. policy go, I'd say borrowers have had some very favourable treatment at the expense of savers. The savings they've made on their mortgages etc. will be far in excess of anything the pensioners are now entitled to via this scheme.

Those weren't being taken directly out of taxation / added onto borrowing as this is.

They were also not, primarily, for that purpose, but to avoid banks going insolvent and keep the UK's gilt interest rate down.

Not comparable.

Originally Posted by Hugh

So perhaps we didn't have it as easy as is stated, with mortgage payments over 50% of salary....

It's being able to get to the position where you can get a mortgage which is one of the biggest issues. House prices are growing much faster than wages and as has been said this is pushing the average age of the first time buyer much higher. It depends where in the country you are of course but it's simply unaffordable for the 'average wage' in a lot of areas.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Compared to most. Hence jealousy not being my motivation.

I am, quite literally, alright, Jack.

Y'know ignition, I'm quite happy for the older generation to get something from the public purse. I wouldn't refer to it as a bribe though, I would call it a deserved gift .