Osborne's 'Pensioner bonds' - bribing OAPs with everyone else's money

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Damien

Also 'Help to Buy' is a scheme designed to prop up artificially high house prices. A better, fairer, scheme would be to dramatically increase the rate of house building in the UK but the Government are wary of increasing the supply too much in case house prices fall.

Or, of course, reducing the number of immigrants flooding in that need to be housed but there's that dastardly EU freedom of movement clause.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

So why not, you know, just not give it to them but instead simply not have the state tax their kids or borrow more based on their future income to begin with?

This is what would normally be considered a 'conservative' way of thinking.

Whichever way it's cut, the 'windfall' is just as likely to benefit kids as it is the parents. And it might have more favourable impact as an accumulated benefit.

But, yes, it's politics. I think you have to expect politics from politicians.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Whichever way it's cut, the 'windfall' is just as likely to benefit kids as it is the parents. And it might have more favourable impact as an accumulated benefit.

But, yes, it's politics. I think you have to expect politics from politicians.

So I have one argument for the policy being that OAPs are in financial strife due to low interest rates, etc, etc, and this is giving something back and another argument that it's cool the money is as likely to be passed on to their kids as it is used by them.

Still not sold but enjoyed the discussion nonetheless.

---------- Post added at 20:45 ---------- Previous post was at 20:43 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Or, of course, reducing the number of immigrants flooding in that need to be housed but there's that dastardly EU freedom of movement clause.

Actually even if there were no immigrants coming in at all we'd still not be building enough new houses in England to cope with native population growth and demographic/household size changes but a minor detail.

Perhaps if the chancellor took some cash from his bribery budget and put it back into the housing budget, the one whose budget he swiftly cut by 60%, things would be different, but then his entire economic growth model is based around private debt, much of that being mortgages, hence high house prices.

EDIT: In 1950 the UK was on financial life support and had a population of 50 million yet 300,000 homes a year was achievable.

This kinda thing was a while ago now.

Are you really peeved about my generation or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Are you really peeved about my generation or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

Neither. I'm peeved about the thorough shafting under-30s are getting to buy the votes of your generation. A generation that has as I mentioned before had a number of unique successes and benefits that won't be repeated.

As I mentioned in my earlier post also I have enjoyed the discussion but it's probably about done.

Thank you for asking.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Still not sold but enjoyed the discussion nonetheless.

You presented your opinion well and certainly made me think more about it. There may be some solace in the probability that grey votes are not quite so easily purchased .

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Neither. I'm peeved about the thorough shafting under-30s are getting to buy the votes of your generation. A generation that has as I mentioned before had a number of unique successes and benefits that won't be repeated.

As I mentioned in my earlier post also I have enjoyed the discussion but it's probably about done.

Thank you for asking.

Don't give up..IF those younger than you would get motivated to actually go and vote then maybe they can engineer a change.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Don't give up..IF those younger than you would get motivated to actually go and vote then maybe they can engineer a change.

If only. We're in an amazing era where never has it been so difficult for politicians to get away with deception and yet people don't try and be the change, they'd rather whinge online.

Bleh. Back to my freedom of speech work.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Bleh. Back to my freedom of speech work.

Shut your maaaaf.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Shut your maaaaf.

No you.

[techguyone]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I will save a few quid on that meeting as my advice would consist of 'Thanks for paying 6 figures on other people's state pensions. You're on your own. Please either get private healthcare or die quickly to avoid burdening what's left of the NHS.'.

This: I find disturbing, and it's becoming a bit of a mantra now.
What next? Euthanasia for the old so they're not a 'burden'...

I don't normally disagree with ignition but..

I'm reading jealousy? for the older generation (I'm not quite at that stage yet, but in another 20 years I will be)
Why does the younger generation always 'blame' the older for having a better/luckier/nicer deal. It's not like they, any more than you, had any choice about when they were born, or the benefit of any crystal ball to see how things would be better/worse 60 years down the line.
They simply did what everyone in each generation does. They make the best of the situation as it is at that time. It's called Human Nature - don't bitch about them for doing it.

Mr A raised an interesting point. When he pointed out, its as much the people that don't vote that makes the difference, as those who do.

I suggest, instead of getting upset at a whole section of the voting public who actually get up off their arses and vote, you perhaps concentrate your efforts on those 'younger' ones who don't. That way this or any other Government won't see the grey/silver vote as something to be 'bribed' and will focus on another demographic who votes in large numbers instead. Who knows, perhaps it will be your age group next!

Originally Posted by techguyone

This: I find disturbing, and it's becoming a bit of a mantra now.
What next? Euthanasia for the old so they're not a 'burden'...

I don't normally disagree with ignition but..

I'm reading jealousy? for the older generation (I'm not quite at that stage yet, but in another 20 years I will be)
Why does the younger generation always 'blame' the older for having a better/luckier/nicer deal. It's not like they, any more than you, had any choice about when they were born, or the benefit of any crystal ball to see how things would be better/worse 60 years down the line.
They simply did what everyone in each generation does. They make the best of the situation as it is at that time. It's called Human Nature - don't bitch about them for doing it.

Mr A raised an interesting point. When he pointed out, its as much the people that don't vote that makes the difference, as those who do.

I suggest, instead of getting upset at a whole section of the voting public who actually get up off their arses and vote, you perhaps concentrate your efforts on those 'younger' ones who don't. That way this or any other Government won't see the grey/silver vote as something to be 'bribed' and will focus on another demographic who votes in large numbers instead. Who knows, perhaps it will be your age group next!

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by techguyone

This: I find disturbing, and it's becoming a bit of a mantra now.
What next? Euthanasia for the old so they're not a 'burden'...

Do read again - I was being sarcastic over what a discussion of my own options would be like.

As far as the rest of your post goes I would point out that I wasn't commenting negatively on them per se but on politicians.

As far as younger generations blaming others go I'd say our younger generations have a right given they're on course to be the first one in recent history, this despite world wars, etc, that'll have a lower quality of life than their parents.

Your reading of jealousy is misplaced.

I don't want 'my' age group to be favoured, I want no age group to be favoured.

I would also question this apparent in-built selfishness between generations. Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund appears to buck the trend somewhat and there are a number of other countries throughout the world where the inter-generational bond is stronger. The UK is bordering on obsessed with eating its young right now, the selfish 'fatherless males' who whinge about house building near them as it may lower their house price along with those who both buy-to-let and let-to-buy, one largely off the back of house price increases the other entirely, come to mind. However luckily the young are so far blind to it and are just shutting up and paying their landlords' mortgages, pensions (yes even the private ones in many cases as the pension schemes need topping up, which is being done largely via lower wages for existing workers) and tax shortfalls.

If I were in their position I'd probably have a criminal record by now as I would be protesting in a rather more vehement way than expressing irritation on here.

My biggest irritation is their inaction, however given the precarious position many of them are in I understand it to an extent. They are shoved to university to accumulate debt then end up on urine poor wages through an insecure job with uncertain hours paying over the top rents with virtually no security of tenure.

---------- Post added at 15:16 ---------- Previous post was at 15:15 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Indeed, a great post besides that a good part of it was presumptuous and incorrect. I especially found the comments about jealousy and how it might be my age group next amusing. One assumes I have reason to be jealous, the other that I want to be part of a client group, neither is correct. Any politician that tries bribing me for my vote will be sent away with a fly in their ear

Just for clarity as I have said more than once in this and other threads I blame politicians first and last. They are the ones doing the bribery and appeasement of those being unreasonable. It's no surprise that people take advantage of such sycophancy and cowardice.

[techguyone]

Aww Well I stand corrected.... but. My point still stands, I've heard it and seen it enough to know that whilst 'you' may not be guilty, there is definitely a tendency, perhaps encouraged tacitly by media that someone other than to politicians is to 'blame' for the current state of affairs. And I'm seeing on forums HYS type things a lot of rhetoric heading towards the 'lets blame the oldies/on benefits people, how dare they live so long, draining our resources... etc

I still believe that the younger generation need to buck up their voting, because it WILL make a difference, I'm also fervently glad I'm not 22 or so now (like my daughter) as I do think it's a horrible time to be young, with house prices being out of reach, comedy car insurance rates, general cost of living etc etc etc.

I'll throw in a left field comment about the Foreign Corruption money - sorry Foreign Aid, that we spend, as it's irking me considerably, I'm sure out of that money, a considerable amount of good could go on something.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by techguyone

I still believe that the younger generation need to buck up their voting, because it WILL make a difference

Absolutely - couldn't agree more. Another reason I despise Russell Brand, him saying they can achieve nothing.

http://www.if.org.uk/archives/5982/p...-may-bite-back