European Terror Attacks

Originally Posted by Ramrod

I'm not convinced that there are all that many innocent muslims. Even the moderates don't want to report suspicious activity to the authorities "a brother doesn't report on a brother" I was told.
Personally, I think it's a poisonous, evil religion.

I think labelling such a large group like that is pretty dangerous. It's also the argument extremists use, that people are complicit in their association with the West. Either because of the Governments we elect, the things we believe or whatever other excuse they can find.

I don't think there is evidence is justify that anything other than a small minority of Muslims support these killers or wouldn't report them.

Either way such a belief means you stop viewing them as people with their own motivations, thoughts and nuances and start viewing them as a homogenous bloc. They're just a 'Muslim' and you think they're not innocent.

Every Christian I know differs from each other in many ways. The only unifying aspect is their religion and even then there are dramatic differences. The same would be true of Muslims. There is an interesting article from the summer about the lack of religious knowledge displayed by ISIS fighters: http://www.newstatesman.com/religion...radicalisation

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Exterminating terrorists isn't to satisfy bloodlust, it's to ensure that they don't kill any more people.

Killing them makes them think they'll be taken off to their 'paradise', giving them what they want. That'll surely encourage 7/7 type incidents. I don't remember the last time a fundamentalist got dispatched without at least trying to take some innocents with them. I'm sorry but I just can't agree with you that their deaths are a price worth paying just to stop further terrorist attacks.

[Ignitionnet]

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think there is evidence is justify that anything other than a small minority of Muslims support these killers or wouldn't report them.

Obviously I haven't been able to verify this data for myself but have a read of this: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pa...nion-Polls.htm

Either way such a belief means you stop viewing them as people with their own motivations, thoughts and nuances and start viewing them as a homogenous bloc. They're just a 'Muslim' and you think they're not innocent.

I merely said 'I'm not convinced'.

thereligionofpeace.com?

Pardon my being a cynic but they don't sound impartial...

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Russ

You really thought I was sticking up for them?

I'm saying killing them is not the answer as it's giving them exactly what they want, thus encouraging more atrocities like today. Some people are clearly happy to pay that price (obviously as long as they themselves aren't caught up in it), I'm certainly not.

I did 5 tours in NI dealing with a terrorist threat and some of it in confrontations i wonder how many you have done or would do. i think i know what a terrorist threat is and what its like to be on the end of an attack. Even today i would not idly stand by and let the terrorists win.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

That's a good cartoon.

There are nice pictures from across France of people packing out wide spaces in solidarity with the magazine: https://twitter.com/Antoine_Specter/...044160/photo/1

It would be nice if all our newspapers tomorrow ran their cartoons in the front page. Although it's easy to say that when you're not the one who face the consequences I guess.

I think this South Park video sums it up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka3nKBR2mIU

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Sirius

I did 5 tours in NI dealing with a terrorist threat and some of it in confrontations i wonder how many you have done or would do. i think i know what a terrorist threat is and what its like to be on the end of an attack. Even today i would not idly stand by and let the terrorists win.

What a way to completely miss the point. If you're happy for innocents to get killed to satisfy your bloodlust then fine, you're on your own with that one.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Russ

What a way to completely miss the point. If you're happy for innocents to get killed to satisfy your bloodlust then fine, you're on your own with that one.

the people who sort out these problems are always on their own its how people like you sleep at night comfy in the knowledge your doing nothing .

[Russ]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

the people who sort out these problems are always on their own its how people like you sleep at night comfy in the knowledge your doing nothing .

"People like me". So does that mean you're out there hunting these **** down? Because from this vantage point I can't see you doing any more than anyone else on here.

No one on here wants the terrorists to win and no one wants to kill innocents. Let's not go over the top.

Originally Posted by Sirius

I did 5 tours in NI dealing with a terrorist threat and some of it in confrontations i wonder how many you have done or would do. i think i know what a terrorist threat is and what its like to be on the end of an attack. Even today i would not idly stand by and let the terrorists win.

I think the issue is how best to stop terrorists. We can't just fight everyone because they're not a nation state we can beat and win a war against. I don't have any problems with us fighting them when we need to but we probably need another approach as well to stop it for good, if that's even possible.

If these murderers in France can be detained without risk then that's what should happen. Like the UK France is a nation of laws and to execute people is against those laws. All of us are equal under the law and that's a principal we should protect. However if there is any risk to anyone and the police need to stop them with force then so be it, I have no problems with that either.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Russ

What a way to completely miss the point. If you're happy for innocents to get killed to satisfy your bloodlust then fine, you're on your own with that one.

Its not blood lust its making sure they cannot repeat there killings. Oh and innocents are getting killed now look at today for case in point. I so hope the french find them and pop them to stop them doing it again.

---------- Post added at 19:39 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

No one on here wants the terrorists to win and no one wants to kill innocents. Let's not go over the top.



I think the issue is how best to stop terrorists. We can't just fight everyone because they're not a nation state we can beat and win a war against. I don't have any problems with us fighting them when we need to but we probably need another approach as well to stop it for good, if that's even possible.

If these murderers in France can be detained without risk then that's what should happen. Like the UK France is a nation of laws and to execute people is against those laws. All of us are equal under the law and that's a principal we should protect. However if there is any risk to anyone and the police need to stop them with force then so be it, I have no problems with that either.

Nice to see a good level headed post

---------- Post added at 19:40 ---------- Previous post was at 19:39 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

the people who sort out these problems are always on their own its how people like you sleep at night comfy in the knowledge your doing nothing .

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Damien

I think this South Park video sums it up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka3nKBR2mIU

Excellent. And correct.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Excellent. And correct.

Especially when you have those who would stick there heads in a bucket of sand and hope the terrorist go away.

[Ramrod]

ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...ate=2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.
http://people-press.org/report/206/a...after-iraq-war

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/...t-infanticide/
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...053251,00.html

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:
(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi..._Feb09_rpt.pdf

Pew Research (2010): 55% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hezbollah
30% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hezbollah
45% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hezbollah (26% negative)
43% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hezbollah (30% negative)
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/

Pew Research (2010): 60% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hamas (34% negative).
49% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hamas (48% negative)
49% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hamas (25% negative)
39% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hamas (33% negative)
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/

Pew Research (2010): 15% of Indonesians believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
34% of Nigerian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/

16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is "acceptable".
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1275/Islam/...aardbaar.dhtml

Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified. 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops.
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005...itish-islamist

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/mu...ns.pdf#page=60

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (81% never).
28% of Egyptian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (38% never).
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/...for-extremism/

Pew Research (2007): Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/mu...ns.pdf#page=60

ICM: 5% of Muslims in Britain tell pollsters they would not report a planned Islamic terror attack to authorities.
27% do not support the deportation of Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate.
http://www.scotsman.com/?id=1956912005
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005...-islamist.html

Federation of Student Islamic Societies: About 1 in 5 Muslim students in Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.
http://www.fosis.org.uk/sac/FullReport.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005...itish-islamist

ICM Poll: 25% of British Muslims disagree that a Muslim has an obligation to report terrorists to police.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews...ms%20Nov04.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005...itish-islamist

Populus Poll (2006): 16% of British Muslims believe suicide attacks against Israelis are justified.
37% believe Jews in Britain are a "legitimate target".
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005...itish-islamist

Pew Research (2013): At least 1 in 4 Muslims do not reject violence against civilians (study did not distinguish between those who believe it is partially justified and never justified).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 15% of Muslims in Turkey support suicide bombings (also 11% in Kosovo, 26% in Malaysia and 26% in Bangladesh).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

PCPO (2014): 89% of Palestinians support Hamas and other terrorists firing rockets at Israeli civilians.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/po...cks-on-israely

Pew Research (2013): Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda. Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban. 13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/...remist-groups/
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/...remist-groups/

See also: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_(Terrorism) for further statistics on Islamic terror.