Superhub : 200Mbit coming soon? (According to a survey)

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by Pierre

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/01/cab...er-second.html

could and eventually being the operative words, with yet another multi-year-long complete network rebuild being required if it is ever going to happen.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

could and eventually being the operative words,

Can and Will.

with yet another multi-year-long complete network rebuild being required if it is ever going to happen.

well it is likely to be 2016 yes, And it will require some re-engineering work. I don't understand why you are coming across as it's something negative?

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Can and Will.

Almost certainly will not.

well it is likely to be 2016 yes, And it will require some re-engineering work.

Not before 2020. And will not be using DOCSIS 3.1.

I don't understand why you are coming across as it's something negative?

Because it's wild exaggeration about a technology that will almost certainly never be used in the context described, as clearly stated in their own source:

It’s of course worth remembering that the top speeds of DOCSIS 3.1 aren’t really intended for domestic users and you’d probably be more likely to see this being introduced at a speed of around 500-600Mbps

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
I'm guessing - but why would VM want to introduce a tier that is lower than the headline speed of BT Infinity Option 1?

That a 200 meg tier is coming seems certain to me.



Hi Chrys

Surely VM are only in the big willy game. 50/100/200 would seem to me to be the mainly marketed tiers. That gives them the scope to save up for 300meg and so on.

Don't you think?

I got no idea what game they playing but I would be surprised if the most popular tier is not the lowest one, the market is still dominated by pricing.

[sollp]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Each VoIP call only needs 64kbps and relatively few punters use their landlines now so you'd hope it won't make a huge dent in the HFC.

MSANs are another active piece of powered kit in the network and one that'll need battery backup. They make perfect sense to sell business services and indeed FTTP on but unsure how good they are for residential areas passed by HFC.

The costs of installing a whole bunch of new cabinets would be non-trivial, unless VM could persuade customers to allow them to rip out the old transport network and replace it with MSANs in the same street furniture though that's perhaps a bit of a tough sell and Ofcom would be all over VM over the outage period.

It's tricky. There're not really many examples to follow as hardly anywhere else has any twisted pair at all in their cable network.

The mothership are quite enthusiastic about getting rid of the PSTN. Whether this happens via PacketCable or more active kit is I guess different. Both get rid of BT Wholesale.

The angle I heard is all geared up to PacketCable both for VoIP and future projects. It's essential in order to transfer to an all-IP network which, with DOCSIS 3.1 and whatever follows after, is where the company will end up being with video delivered by 100% IP multicast.

When your looking at an MSAN shelf costing approx £5500 just to give you 240 lines I know where it will be going

---------- Post added at 20:57 ---------- Previous post was at 20:53 ----------

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Yeah, the ex-Telewest London network was for the most part really not good. Some only had upstream bandwidth of 5-30MHz and downstream maxed out at 550MHz so needed rebuild.

There many areas to do still but these will be done first

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by sollp

When your looking at an MSAN shelf costing approx £5500 just to give you 240 lines I know where it will be going

240 lines at £15 a month and your costs are covered in less than two months, and the rest is just pure profit.

[sollp]

Originally Posted by Pierre

That's as maybe, but if you're hooked up as I think you are, you'll know that the voice over cable project is being pushed from one angle.

But the engineering experts in Access, the real ones, hate it. They'd much rather go for using MSANS to deliver VoIP amongst other things. We could still utilise the twisted pair infrastructure and not overload the HFC.

I don't think it's a done deal yet.

I don't know anyone that really enthuses about voice over cable.

Anyway, we'll see.

The cost of upgrading the Telco transmission network is massive compared to the HFC in my opinion. The exchanges are obsolete and so is the Transmission network. The work to replace the shelves is not straight forward and would cost a fortune on its own.

---------- Post added at 21:27 ---------- Previous post was at 21:26 ----------

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

240 lines at £15 a month and your costs are covered in less than two months, and the rest is just pure profit.

For one shelf! Yes but times that by thousands and the cost of the work to do it and thousands pounds more. Then the existing STM1 network has to be replaced with Broadgate in the cabinet and headend, more fibre needed for comm's to the MSAN shelves ect,ect. Maintenance contracts with Keymile, licences ect ect

[qasdfdsaq]

Yeah but for each thousand more shelves you're connecting 240,000 more lines thus bringing in more revenue... Two months' ROI on a piece of tech hardware is incredibly good by anyone's standards. Sure there are other costs but if a major piece of equipment has paid for itself in less than two months that leaves decades worth of revenue to cover the rest...

[sollp]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Yeah but for each thousand more shelves you're connecting 240,000 more lines thus bringing in more revenue... Two months' ROI on a piece of tech hardware is incredibly good by anyone's standards. Sure there are other costs but if a major piece of equipment has paid for itself in less than two months that leaves decades worth of revenue to cover the rest...

Don't disagree with that, but the Telco vendors change the equipment and after 5 years(approx) it's obsolete. Your then trying to engineer another solution to fit the the shelf and the differing connections ect into the cabinets again at a massive cost. The software used to connect to the shelves after a few years is then not supported for a decent amount of time which again causes problems. As there is kit out there that will only work on Wins 3.1. WINS 98 ect we are now on Win 10 nearly, laptop connections using serial ports now having to use USB-Serial and all the issues that brings when using corporate laptops.


The CATV network is so much easier to upgrade when you have different vendors to accommodate for.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by sollp

Don't disagree with that, but the Telco vendors change the equipment and after 5 years(approx) it's obsolete. Your then trying to engineer another solution to fit the the shelf and the differing connections ect into the cabinets again at a massive cost. The software used to connect to the shelves after a few years is then not supported for a decent amount of time which again causes problems. As there is kit out there that will only work on Wins 3.1. WINS 98 ect we are now on Win 10 nearly, laptop connections using serial ports now having to use USB-Serial and all the issues that brings when using corporate laptops.


The CATV network is so much easier to upgrade when you have different vendors to accommodate for.

I believe you'd have to build new cabinets for the MSANs, too?

These would need everything the BT street-side DSLAM cabinets have.

Is that £5,500 cost just for a chassis or for a single line card?

Would the mapping between old and new networks really be that direct or would there be a need to rearrange the copper network?

[sollp]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I believe you'd have to build new cabinets for the MSANs, too?

These would need everything the BT street-side DSLAM cabinets have.

Is that £5,500 cost just for a chassis or for a single line card?

Would the mapping between old and new networks really be that direct or would there be a need to rearrange the copper network?

Most cabinets should be able to accommodate them but no doubt there will be many that need replacing.

The £5500(approx) is for: Shelf, 4 Line cards, COGE3 Card, lomi8 card, fans and cabling. This is for a straight swap of existing shelf. Then the STM1 Transmission shelf will then be replaced with ECI Broadgate in the cabinet and headend so another £3-4000,(approx). The you need extra pair of fibres for the comm's to the MSAN shelf again massive cost and waste of fibre in my opinion. This is a very basic costing as around the country there are different vendors in use, Nortel,Nokia,Marconi ect all with there differing requirements.

The cabling from Line cards to E sides again brings many problems and solutions have been tried but you can't beat ripping out the existing interface cabling and replacing with new from Line card to E side but again this is a massive cost in labour for contractors

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Almost certainly will not.

Not before 2020. And will not be using DOCSIS 3.1.

Because it's wild exaggeration about a technology that will almost certainly never be used in the context described, as clearly stated in their own source:

I can only go off the documentation I have seen, I'm not in the Access dept so not close to it.

But from what I have seen last year, DOCSIS 3.1 deployment is scheduled to start in Q2 next year, with a further upgrade planned in Q3 2017. The network is planned to be 600Mb ready by end 2016/2017.

There's a whole host of other stuff to be looked at as well CCAP, EPoC running DOCSIS 3.0 and 3.1 together and other stuff that is outside of my area of expertise

OF course 10Gb is not going to be offered, why would it. It's theoretical. The main thrust of the article is that VM is moving to Docisis 3.1. and from what I've seen it will be well before 2020 - I don't know where you get that from.

[Kushan]

Yeah, isn't the "theoretical" of DOCSIS 3.0 something like 1.5Gbit?

[General Maximus]

Originally Posted by Pierre

But from what I have seen last year, DOCSIS 3.1 deployment is scheduled to start in Q2 next year, with a further upgrade planned in Q3 2017. The network is planned to be 600Mb ready by end 2016/2017.

I agree, at some point last year one of the forum users posted a powerpoint presentation which Neil Burkett (sp) used at the AGM and it in they discussed VM's plans for docsis3.1 and their deployment strategy. They definitely said they were going to being domestic trials this year with a view to it being rolled out next year.

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by Pierre

But from what I have seen last year, DOCSIS 3.1 deployment is scheduled to start in Q2 next year, with a further upgrade planned in Q3 2017. The network is planned to be 600Mb ready by end 2016/2017.

So nowhere near 10Gb then.

OF course 10Gb is not going to be offered, why would it. It's theoretical.

Which is what I've been saying all along

The main thrust of the article is that VM is moving to Docisis 3.1. and from what I've seen it will be well before 2020 - I don't know where you get that from.

Did you miss the title or the start of the article? Or the particular sentence I was specifically quoting from?

nextbigfuture.com/2015/01/cable-has-10-gigabit-per-second.html

Key hardware for the next generation DOCSIS 3.1 cable broadband standard, which could eventually be used by Virgin Media (Liberty Global) to deliver top UK Internet download speeds of up to 10Gbps (Gigabits per second) and 1Gbps uploads

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:46 ----------

Originally Posted by Kushan

Yeah, isn't the "theoretical" of DOCSIS 3.0 something like 1.5Gbit?

That's about as likely as 10Gb on D3.1.

If they ever go 10Gb it'll involve such a big rebuild they may as well go FTTB or FTTP.