Superhub : Superhub 3 with 802.11ac?

[BenMcr]

Ok, but that's what I meant. I can't find any links to confirm that D3.1 customer kit is being installed by anyone yet.

[General Maximus]

i know, the pdf said 2015. I imagine VM will announce a 200mbit upgrade this November as they usually do and then plan something huge they can advertise next year which they'll tie in with a 3.1 modem knowing that the customer is going to need to be on 3.1 going forward if they are going to continue to be on the highest tier (like moi). I would like to see a jump to 300mbits on 16 channels, that would give them something to shout about and quite justifiably.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by General Maximus

If I remember correctly they wanted to do it a bit backwards. They were going to rollout 3.1 modems long before they had planned doing the network upgrades. I think the idea was that modems are bakwards compatible with 3.0 so they are going to work regardless and then as the infrastructure becomes available everything will be migrated transparently and the user will be none the wiser .

I think if people are expecting an en masse replacement of modems with 3.1 modems they're in for a world of disappointment. That would cost a fortune.

3.0 modems are 'in theory' compatible with 3.1 CMTS, and upgrading at least some CMTS is hopefully just a software upgrade if a converged cable platform is being used.

---------- Post added at 11:47 ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 ----------

Originally Posted by General Maximus

i know, the pdf said 2015. I imagine VM will announce a 200mbit upgrade this November as they usually do and then plan something huge they can advertise next year which they'll tie in with a 3.1 modem knowing that the customer is going to need to be on 3.1 going forward if they are going to continue to be on the highest tier (like moi). I would like to see a jump to 300mbits on 16 channels, that would give them something to shout about and quite justifiably.

500Mb/50Mb is being done right now on the same hardware the SH3 is using. There's really no desperate rush in terms of tiers of service to jump to 3.1

[General Maximus]

Back in the day when 50mbits came out I can remember making a big flap about docsis 3 being exclusive for 50mbit users and everyone else was staying on docsis 2. Given the performance gains of 3.1 I assumed that any new tier coming out next year would be launched with a 3.1 modem so the customer is ready when VM decide they want to take advantage of it (just as vmgn300 was for 50mbit and shub2 was for 152mbits). Just as attempting 152mbits on a vmng300 was pushing it for 4 channels I imagine 300mbits is pushing your luck on a shub1/2 on 8 channels so I would imagine they want a 16 channel modem tied into the rollout.

[Ignitionnet]

The SH3 is a 16 channel downstream, 4 channel upstream DOCSIS 3 modem.

You seem to be confusing 16 channel modems with DOCSIS 3.1, they aren't the same thing. There are exactly zero DOCSIS 3.1 home gateways available right now, and even when they become available they'll be very expensive.



Was delivered on a 16 channel modem - http://www.icbn.com.tw/product.php?act=view&no=37

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

The SH3 is a 24 channel downstream, 4 channel upstream DOCSIS 3 modem.

If it's based on the C6250, which is what the Wifi Certificate seems to say, isn't it 16x4?

http://cl.netgear.com/service-provid...C6250.aspx#two

[General Maximus]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

If it's based on the C6250, which is what the Wifi Certificate says, isn't it 16x4?

http://cl.netgear.com/service-provid...C6250.aspx#two

that is what i was going to say, I saw the specs posted in two different places last week and both said 16 channels.

Either way, I am not getting confused, I was just trying to make the point that even with the 3.1 gateways and infrastructure available, one of the bonuses of providing customers with 3.1 equipment will be that it will be able to support more channels simply because it is newer hardware and more recent and will thus be able to cater for the new higher speed tiers coming out.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

If it's based on the C6250, which is what the Wifi Certificate seems to say, isn't it 16x4?

http://cl.netgear.com/service-provid...C6250.aspx#two

Edited, my bad, thank you.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by General Maximus

Either way, I am not getting confused, I was just trying to make the point that even with the 3.1 gateways and infrastructure available, one of the bonuses of providing customers with 3.1 equipment will be that it will be able to support more channels simply because it is newer hardware and more recent and will thus be able to cater for the new higher speed tiers coming out.

But they aren't available yet - that's the point isn't it?

If / when they are then that's a different question. But there is no reason for Virgin Media to stop a broadband kit roadmap to wait for them to be available.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by General Maximus

that is what i was going to say, I saw the specs posted in two different places last week and both said 16 channels.

Either way, I am not getting confused, I was just trying to make the point that even with the 3.1 gateways and infrastructure available, one of the bonuses of providing customers with 3.1 equipment will be that it will be able to support more channels simply because it is newer hardware and more recent and will thus be able to cater for the new higher speed tiers coming out.

Same reasons the SH1 and SH2 are only 8 channel modems and the SH3 a 16x4 channel device rather than a 24x8 channel - cost and business case.

CPE is VM's biggest capital expense.

[General Maximus]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

But they aren't available yet - that's the point isn't it?

If / when they are then that's a different question. But there is no reason for Virgin Media to stop a broadband kit roadmap to wait for them to be available.

I don't know how we have managed to go off on a tangent, I have never suggested that they need to stop any plans which are currently being implemented. The only point I have tried to make over the last couple of pages is that it would make sense for them to make shub3 available to customers who are going to upgrade to 200mbit (if/when it gets announced in November) and to new customers (as they have done in the past) and then next year start dishing out the 3.1 modems to top tier only ready for a new 300mbit tier and eventual migration onto 3.1 infrastructure

[Ignitionnet]

FYI:

https://www.excentis.com/system/file...cts_list_0.pdf

I think I get what you're saying General but it doesn't really make commercial sense. This would be the equivalent of VM starting to hand out the VMNG300 to 20Mb customers in advance for eventual migration to DOCSIS 3.0 before the DOCSIS 3.0 network were completed.

VM wouldn't be paying Netgear for the SH2.2 / SH3 which won't go live until later this year if they plan on obsoleting it next year. The SH2 would be absolutely fine with 152Mb or indeed 200Mb - you guys were at one time on 20Mb delivered over 27Mb-38Mb.

One thought that does come to mind is deploying a 3.1 device and supplying it with a whole brand new tier rather than an upgrading tier, as they did with the VMNG300 when customers purchased that.

The problem with deploying it more widely than that is that it would be an expensive device as I mentioned, the VMNG300 wasn't cheap, and not looking at any names but people would get sulky at others having newer CPE than them and get on the phone to retentions threatening to leave VM forever and curse their name to Satan if they don't have one couriered before the end of the hour.

For the geeks:

[General Maximus]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

not looking at any names but people would get sulky at others having newer CPE than them and get on the phone to retentions threatening to leave VM forever and curse their name to Satan if they don't have one couriered before the end of the hour

not me, I fought my ass off to keep my vmng300/get it back rather than have shub1. Although I am happy with shub2 I would have kept my vmng300 if it was practical to do so. I also wouldn't be too fussed about shub3 or new docsis3.1 cpe unless there was going to be a performance increase (e.g. I thought I needed access to a larger bonding group due to speed issues). Other than that I am all for if it ain't broken don't fix it. I spend a lot of time making sure I buy decent stuff when I need something so I am never in a hurry to replace it.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by General Maximus

. I imagine VM will announce a 200mbit upgrade this November as they usually do .

You're probably right.

They'll be a 'free upgrade' announcement with some past it celeb promoting (Melvyn Hayes is available I hear ....)

Prices rises (totally unconnected) will follow almost immediately. The 'free' upgrades will come months/years later for existing customers and immediately for new customers or anybody mug enough to sign a new contract.

Who on earth needs more than 50 MB anyway ?? It's good enough for everything I can think of, particularly now there are no data restrictions. It's just a game of mine's bigger that yours Top Gear mentality (by the way mine is bigger than yours just in case you were wondering )

[Ignitionnet]

Interestingly the MXL261 cable front-end is only an 8-channel demodulator.

I am finding myself wondering if this is using the 1st generation of the 6250 hardware, the 8x4 variant now.

Saving the pennies wherever they can be saved I guess.