'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated

Originally Posted by Russ

There does seem to be a very strong misconception that Religious Education in faith-based schools is just an opportunity for extra evangelism for that particular belief.

NOT what I said at all..I just don't think any one faith should have precedence in education.I certainly think religious education should be on the curriculum but that all religions should be studied.

I'm really not attacking religion at all but if you choose to view it that way then that's your problem not mine.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

NOT what I said at all..

I was responding to Chris, not you....

[Ignitionnet]

Reading the research piece I posted there does appear to be a view that selective admissions faith schools in middle class suburbs present a growth opportunity for the church.

Whether this is official policy I don't know, though it seems quite churlish the implication that state funded schools represent a potential recruitment avenue for the Anglican church and is, I'd hope, not the official view.

Incidentally that kind of view is exactly why I am more bothered by admissions being inclusive. The phrase 'On your knees to avoid the fees.' is really quite offensive to those secular, atheistic, and of faith.

---------- Post added at 10:05 ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 ----------

Originally Posted by Gary L

Makes you wonder if we could function without religion.
we base our lives around religion. we make our decisions around religion.
yet we may die to find out that we're staying in the ground afterall.

I think, Gary, none of us will die to find out we're staying in the ground or indeed anything else. I have no more fear of death than someone who's devoutly religious, just the dying part I don't fancy

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

The phrase 'On your knees to avoid the fees.' is really quite offensive to those secular, atheistic, and of faith.

In principle is that much different from a parish requiring you to be part of that church in order to get married there?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Russ

In principle is that much different from a parish requiring you to be part of that church in order to get married there?

Yes - that is purely between you and the parish, it doesn't involve a resource that is 100% ongoing and 90% capital funded by the state, which is likely to be oversubscribed.

Do you not find the idea of parents pretending to have faith to get their children into school, or that potentially they may push out children of parents who do genuinely have faith or even push out children who are far closer to the school but whose parents do also not have genuine faith distasteful?

[richard s]

Religion has also caused/causing more division and started wars as well. Getting back to Muslim only controlled schools in the UK must be wrong. We are open but are they.

Today the schools tomorrow the world!!!

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Yes - that is purely between you and the parish, it doesn't involve a resource that is 100% ongoing and 90% capital funded by the state, which is likely to be oversubscribed.

....I said 'in principle'....

---------- Post added at 10:43 ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 ----------

Originally Posted by richard s

Religion has also caused/causing more division and started wars as well.

A perfect example of why religious education is important these days. Religion has not caused wars. The wrongful use of it has been the catalyst and excuse but the same could be said about politics, greed, money, weapons, drugs etc.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by richard s

Religion has also caused/causing more division and started wars as well. Getting back to Muslim only controlled schools in the UK must be wrong. We are open but are they.

Today the schools tomorrow the world!!!

You can't fix the mistakes if you ignore them.

Islam is certainly a religion founded on many of the wrong things, however most of its followers in this country are moderate and way more liberal than the core religion would suggest.

Sadly there are also a number who are fundamentalists and wish for an Islamic state. They have integrated poorly if at all, and the city with the largest Islamic population in Western Europe also has the distinction of being known as the most dangerous.

Unfortunately people who happen to be Muslim came from the third world and, rather than seek a better life, brought that world with them. The interpretation of their religion they brought with them is incompatible with the society they moved to, so they set about creating their own.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Reading the research piece I posted there does appear to be a view that selective admissions faith schools in middle class suburbs present a growth opportunity for the church.

Whether this is official policy I don't know, though it seems quite churlish the implication that state funded schools represent a potential recruitment avenue for the Anglican church and is, I'd hope, not the official view.

Incidentally that kind of view is exactly why I am more bothered by admissions being inclusive. The phrase 'On your knees to avoid the fees.' is really quite offensive to those secular, atheistic, and of faith.

---------- Post added at 10:05 ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 ----------



I think, Gary, none of us will die to find out we're staying in the ground or indeed anything else. I have no more fear of death than someone who's devoutly religious, just the dying part I don't fancy

I am hoping for me it will be bang gone in a second sort of thing. A long protracted illness in pain is something i hope i don't experience.

Originally Posted by Damien

Wanting a secular education system doesn't mean you want to stifle peoples right it just means you don't think it's the state's job to get involved with the teaching of religion.

It means those parents who want their children educated in a religious surrounding can't so i think it does stifle parental rights in what is still very much in my opinion a Christian society

---------- Post added at 17:07 ---------- Previous post was at 16:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Especially when religion interferes in the teaching of science.

It doesn't ,not in schools obliged to teach the national curriculum anyway ,which would include faith schools ,but i'm sure you know that

I don't hate religion.I have a RE O-level. I respect religion,I respect the Christian Church and Christians.I have never been one for Christian or religion bashing.
Music,art,literature,medicine all owe so much to the Christian church.

However when religion is dragged into how we teach science and dogma takes over in education then I will say that it's time for religion to leave the school grounds and head for the church grounds and into the homes of those who wish to raise their children in whatever religion of their choice.I'm not saying parents shouldn't bring their children up in their own faith.Just that religion isn't the state's business. Education is too important to be held hostage by any one faith.

I don't think that is or has been much of a problem Maggie ,sure there have been some exceptions but not many .It is perfectly possible for faith schools to teach modern science .

Originally Posted by martyh

It means those parents who want their children educated in a religious surrounding can't so i think it does stifle parental rights in what is still very much in my opinion a Christian society****

---------- Post added at 17:07 ---------- Previous post was at 16:57 ----------

I don't think that is or has been much of a problem Maggie ,sure there have been some exceptions but not many .It is perfectly possible for faith schools to teach modern science .

****If any parent feels that concerned then they can always be home schooled.

It's the exceptions that worry me..

Originally Posted by Maggy J

****If any parent feels that concerned then they can always be home schooled.

It's just as well that society is somewhat less illiberal than this.

As a teacher educator you have undoubted expertise in the practice of teaching educating children whatever subject you're qualified in. You do not, however, have a monopoly on ideas when it comes to deciding the environment in which children should spend so many of their formative days.

Thankfully the British State has historically recognised this, and continues to do so. It recognises that the obligation it places on parents to have their children educated is beyond the means of most parents to fulfil by themselves, and therefore provides schools. It recognises also that in effectively requiring children so spend so many hours apart from their parents, it should not thereby acquire the parents' right to decide the environment in which that education takes place.

Originally Posted by Maggy J

****If any parent feels that concerned then they can always be home schooled.

as can Atheist children if their parents are that worried about little jonny coming into contact with religion

It's the exceptions that worry me..

Not me, i don't think there are enough exceptions to worry about ,of course if you know different please elaborate

Originally Posted by martyh

as can Atheist children if their parents are that worried about little jonny coming into contact with religion

You mean if they choose to sent their children to a religious based school? I think they will have already sorted that one out in their minds.

As for proving the exceptions well you brought that up..and I'm waiting to see just what this investigation throws up.

By the way I was taught in a school where religion featured very heavily..and I got an RE O-level and the RE prize..and I was an atheist by the time I left.

[Gary L]

They've sent in an anti terrorist person to investigate what the Muslims are up to.