Kelly's BT Openreach Engineers

[shoot2thrill]

Ive considered applying to BT OR but they rarely seem to recruit and I dont think I could manage on the wage drop to begin with. Dont the trainee OR lads start on 14k or something daft? Or is it a different system for guys with experience?

I agree that it is a bonkers system. I dont do MI anymore i only do copper line provides which we have to carry out to the same SOP as openreach otherwise we get the money taken back off us, so its in our interest to do it properly.
However when I did the MI work it was sh*t pay and we didnt get provided any proper test equipment. So you get the scenario of lads only being able to do a basic job and any problems that occur arent dealt with as it wasnt worth the poor pay! Its a vicious cycle
I requested to be taken off the contract and thankfully I got swapped back to copper installations which is worth the money. (Most of the time)

The argument of "subbies" V direct labour will roll on forever tho I reckon.
If kellys and quinns pulled there lads out tomorrow could OR cope? Definitely not.
like wise OR couldnt or wouldnt set thousands more engineers on either.
I dont know why OR guys dont just learn to live with the fact contractors are needed.
if OR offered to set us all on im sure we would jump at the chance but that isnt going to happen.
Im quite surprised by the hostility shown by OR towards its contractors, most of you seem to agree were getting shafted yet you still slag us off and look down at us at every opportunity.
Surely the us V them philosophy helps nobody.

[MrIca]

OR survived fine for years without contractors.

OR engineers start on about £23k and then the top of the pay band is £27k. The thing is though anything after your normal finish time in the evening is paid at the overtime rate which is much more. So most lads are on 30 odd k. Obviously then if you work overtime at the weekend you'd be on more again. If you have to work away that is guaranteed overtime also. Of course everything is paid for tools and vehicle wise so you just pay tax via PAYE. So the pay is good, with 5 weeks holiday, sick pay and a decent pension. There's other benefits too.

I think the £14k you're thinking of is the apprentice wage. Most OR staff don't come in as apprentices. To be fair the hostility is probably because when contractors came in it was an absolute nightmare and the quality of work was awful. Customers being told they've got to have their phone socket in the hall and it can't be moved. That's just not true! Old obsolete wiring being left in place etc. It HAS got better but the MI installs from contractors are still awful.

[shoot2thrill]

It sounds like you guys are on a good crack then! Defo worth looking into.
i presume there is still some sort of training/buddying system involved to gauge what level a person is at?

I can agree the quality side of things is a problem, not so much on copper provides as SOP is hammered into us, but on MI definitely. I was told I was on MI via a phonecall one monday morning, id literally never done anything to do with MI and had to ask instructions over the phone! Shambles really, and its that type of thing which obviously seperates us.

I think they are now setting on guys specifically for the MI contract with actual training involved so things might improve.

[MrIca]

Originally Posted by shoot2thrill

It sounds like you guys are on a good crack then! Defo worth looking into.
i presume there is still some sort of training/buddying system involved to gauge what level a person is at?

I can agree the quality side of things is a problem, not so much on copper provides as SOP is hammered into us, but on MI definitely. I was told I was on MI via a phonecall one monday morning, id literally never done anything to do with MI and had to ask instructions over the phone! Shambles really, and its that type of thing which obviously seperates us.

I think they are now setting on guys specifically for the MI contract with actual training involved so things might improve.

Yeah buddying is compulsory and you get petty of actual training at training centres. It just depends on your skill as to how long you will buddy. Everyone would start off on MI and they gradually ramp up your skills over the course of a couple of years to underground and broadband faults.

[judgey]

so working for Kelly;s, whats the average wage ???

[MrIca]

Originally Posted by judgey

so working for Kelly;s, whats the average wage ???

After all the crap has been taken off like diesel, admin fees to Kelly's, tools etc.

[judgey]

well i know i think its paid every 2 weeks, and you pay a firm to do the tax etc.

[insulatorpotty]

i thought kellys gave fuel cards to their engineers. ?

[hippopig]

Originally Posted by MrIca

OR survived fine for years without contractors.

OR engineers start on about £23k and then the top of the pay band is £27k. The thing is though anything after your normal finish time in the evening is paid at the overtime rate which is much more. So most lads are on 30 odd k. Obviously then if you work overtime at the weekend you'd be on more again. If you have to work away that is guaranteed overtime also. Of course everything is paid for tools and vehicle wise so you just pay tax via PAYE. So the pay is good, with 5 weeks holiday, sick pay and a decent pension. There's other benefits too.

I think the £14k you're thinking of is the apprentice wage. Most OR staff don't come in as apprentices. To be fair the hostility is probably because when contractors came in it was an absolute nightmare and the quality of work was awful. Customers being told they've got to have their phone socket in the hall and it can't be moved. That's just not true! Old obsolete wiring being left in place etc. It HAS got better but the MI installs from contractors are still awful.

Got an interview for a customer service engineer on Wednesday......not sure what to expect as only applied for an OR job as a cable reclaimer...in october......been a mechanic for the last 20 years so hope i can do it.....any idea of the benefits?and the woman that rang me had no idea of what the job entailed or of the wage.....great start

[MrIca]

Originally Posted by hippopig

Got an interview for a customer service engineer on Wednesday......not sure what to expect as only applied for an OR job as a cable reclaimer...in october......been a mechanic for the last 20 years so hope i can do it.....any idea of the benefits?and the woman that rang me had no idea of what the job entailed or of the wage.....great start

Wow well done. What do you mean the benefits? A CSE is basically fixing network faults it's a good job. You will start doing fibre installs mostly and then over the following couple of years you'll do training so that you'll be fixing underground network faults and very few installs. It's the pay grade above*the cable reclaiming job.
I can tell you what your wages will be, you'll start on about 21k or 23k (I can't remember which) and the maximum is 27k when you reach the top of the pay grade. Overtime on top of that. Don't whatever you do ask what your pay will be. The interviewer probably won't know and you'll blow your chances of getting a job. Back to your question about benefits, I don't quite know what you mean by that. You get free broadband, good pension etc.

Just be careful, it's a great job and you're coming across slightly like all you're worried about is money and benefits. They won't give you a job if that's how you come across in an interview. I don't think any big company would. Good luck.

[hippopig]

Originally Posted by MrIca

Wow well done. What do you mean the benefits? A CSE is basically fixing network faults it's a good job. You will start doing fibre installs mostly and then over the following couple of years you'll do training so that you'll be fixing underground network faults and very few installs. It's the pay grade above*the cable reclaiming job.
I can tell you what your wages will be, you'll start on about 21k or 23k (I can't remember which) and the maximum is 27k when you reach the top of the pay grade. Overtime on top of that. Don't whatever you do ask what your pay will be. The interviewer probably won't know and you'll blow your chances of getting a job. Back to your question about benefits, I don't quite know what you mean by that. You get free broadband, good pension etc.

Just be careful, it's a great job and you're coming across slightly like all you're worried about is money and benefits. They won't give you a job if that's how you come across in an interview. I don't think any big company would. Good luck.

Thanks for the reply MrIca....not desperate but was just curious as to the benefits package....as it was mentioned but that was all....had the interview today and seemed to go ok .Was told my starting basic would be between £17-19k.....just been sent a link to do some online testing,so plan to do that on the weekend when i have more time

[insulatorpotty]

good luck. nothing wrong in asking what the package includes. its what any savvy person would do. back in the day, companies were honest enough to include all that in the job advert. nowadays they just spout **** like generous benefits, competitive salary and then batt you off against the next man to see how low you will go.
Dont be under any illusions with openreach, the new recruits are being brought in on inferior contracts to the existing engineers to lower the wage bill and change the t&c's by default. . They are pushing the older lads out the door as fast as they can and back filling with new recruits and cheap cowboy labour.

[MrIca]

Originally Posted by insulatorpotty

good luck. nothing wrong in asking what the package includes. its what any savvy person would do. back in the day, companies were honest enough to include all that in the job advert. nowadays they just spout **** like generous benefits, competitive salary and then batt you off against the next man to see how low you will go.
Dont be under any illusions with openreach, the new recruits are being brought in on inferior contracts to the existing engineers to lower the wage bill and change the t&c's by default. . They are pushing the older lads out the door as fast as they can and back filling with new recruits and cheap cowboy labour.

Not sure I agree with all of this. There are pay bands like any big company and the CSE role falls into a pay band so everyone is on similar money. So I'm not sure how your idea of batting off against the next man works. How exactly are older people being pushed out? I just don't see it myself.

[sweaty]

[I]Anyone with any experience in telecoms/sky/virgin/electrical industry will know its not a set hours type of job. You dont just down tools and go home at 5.[/QUOTE][/I]

Unless you work for Openreach and your Manager won't pay overtime!!

---------- Post added at 15:15 ---------- Previous post was at 15:05 ----------

I used to thoroughly and doubly check any pole erected by Kelly's after one fell over after a day. I'm sure there was a story about a contractor firm sawing the poles to make them fit hence the depth was dangerously shallow..

[hippopig]

wasnt looking to cause a row....just asking as im keen to change frommy current job