The state benefits system mega-thread.

Putting aside the rather silly emotive terms which I don't think help either side if used no where have I seen anyone say there are not people getting benefit that shouldn't Marty in fact you'll find most of us have agreed that point. My biggest problem with not only the welfare system but a few others as well is that they are too politicised to be effective any longer. We need independent professionals to recreate from the ground up a new fair welfare system free from political interference or misuse. What is never right though be you red, blue or yellow is attack the people in a system that they have no say on being in. It really is time we demanded more from those elected to represent us instead of allowing them time and again to turn one section of society against another section to distract from the wholly pathetic job they are doing. It would also be good for the majority to research things for themselves then accept what any politician tells them.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

no where have I seen anyone say there are not people getting benefit that shouldn't Marty in fact you'll find most of us have agreed that point.

I haven't disagreed either so not sure what your point is

It was in reply to your "3.5million" comment but I'm sure you knew that.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

It was in reply to your "3.5million" comment but I'm sure you knew that.

No, you where very vague .
My point was if 3.5 million are getting the disability benefits (and according to you, you have all agreed that is the case) then what exactly are you all moaning about,when you get down to it people do get financial help from the state ,they are not left in the gutter to fend for themselves and generally speaking most people have an acceptable quality of life on benefits .
Some of the whingers and moaners on here will no doubt think differently and be horrified that i have said that but is the case

[denphone]

Atos quits disability benefit work.

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/atos-quits...benefit-work-1

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014...n_5040557.html

[blackthorn]

Originally Posted by denphone

Atos quits disability benefit work.

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/atos-quits...benefit-work-1

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014...n_5040557.html

Not to worry, they`ll still keep their fingers in the pie, they`ve got the childcare contract.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...o-9203256.html

[denphone]

Originally Posted by blackthorn

Not to worry, they`ll still keep their fingers in the pie, they`ve got the childcare contract.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...o-9203256.html

And they also got some of the PIP contract so lets see if they make a mess of that as well.

For all the guff from this gvernment we now know the bedroom tax has been 6% effective well worth all the hassle, cost and misery it has caused but still they will keep it because they are more worried about being seen to go soft then do something useful with welfare.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

For all the guff from this gvernment we now know the bedroom tax has been 6% effective well worth all the hassle, cost and misery it has caused but still they will keep it because they are more worried about being seen to go soft then do something useful with welfare.

Without putting that figure into context it's a bit of a misleading figure Rizzy .What it actually means is that around 30,000 people have moved since the HB reduction started saving over £1.3m per day which in anybodies books is a good saving .

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...d-home-figures

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26770727

Oh it's saved more then that because for the ninety four percent who couldn't move their monthly income has been reduced by as much as £125 if they had been given that as a raise there would have been uproar but cut it by that amount and it's great. It was and is a badly thought out policy if the aim was to free up housing but as a cash grab it has been a fantastic success.

[nomadking]

It has never been just about saving money. It is about FAIRNESS. Additional savings will come from not having to build 3/4 bedroom social housing just to provide spare bedrooms for free.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Oh it's saved more then that because for the ninety four percent who couldn't move their monthly income has been reduced by as much as £125 if they had been given that as a raise there would have been uproar but cut it by that amount and it's great. It was and is a badly thought out policy if the aim was to free up housing but as a cash grab it has been a fantastic success.

Where do you get the figure of "94% who couldn't move" from .It seems to me that you are assuming that everyone affected by the benefit reduction will want to move or even need to move .Some will make savings in their household budget to avoid moving and also don't forget that a lot of people in receipt of HB are working so may a more flexible budget to work with .

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by nomadking

It has never been just about saving money. It is about FAIRNESS. Additional savings will come from not having to build 3/4 bedroom social housing just to provide spare bedrooms for free.

Where do you get that for on given the enormous shortfall in social housing of all sizes?

Fascinating how interested the government are in fairness when it comes to those on lower incomes and welfare and how utterly disinterested they are in it when it comes to higher incomes.

This government should feel so proud. For all its work the housing benefit bill continues to rise and the majority of new claimants during this parliament are in work.

Some might say a fairer thing to do is invest in social housing and allow housing associations and councils to borrow based on future rents, bringing costs down and leaving an asset rather than continuing to shovel our money to landlords.

---------- Post added at 12:14 ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

Where do you get the figure of "94% who couldn't move" from .It seems to me that you are assuming that everyone affected by the benefit reduction will want to move or even need to move .Some will make savings in their household budget to avoid moving and also don't forget that a lot of people in receipt of HB are working so may a more flexible budget to work with .

I thought that was the idea behind it? To free up larger properties for families?

[rhyds]

Two of my friends have been able to either get a council house for the first time or move to a larger one now that properties are being freed up.

The thing is, this policy has been in place for years for those in private rented accommodation.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Where do you get that for on given the enormous shortfall in social housing of all sizes?

Fascinating how interested the government are in fairness when it comes to those on lower incomes and welfare and how utterly disinterested they are in it when it comes to higher incomes.

This government should feel so proud. For all its work the housing benefit bill continues to rise and the majority of new claimants during this parliament are in work.

Some might say a fairer thing to do is invest in social housing and allow housing associations and councils to borrow based on future rents, bringing costs down and leaving an asset rather than continuing to shovel our money to landlords.

---------- Post added at 12:14 ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 ----------



I thought that was the idea behind it? To free up larger properties for families?

The fairness is that it is something that those in the private rented sector have had to deal with all along. People keep bitching about too little 1/2 bed social housing being built. Although in the area around me, quite a lot of 1/2 bed social housing has been built. It has been all too easy to put people in oversized housing, because the tenants didn't care about how the rent was going to be paid. The housing associations could build loads of unneeded 3/4 properties. Now they can concentrate more on building 1/2 bed properties, with demand for 3/4 bed ones being supplied by the ones freed up by people with spare bedrooms.

Housing associations are financed by central government and recycling rent money.